Odin, Thor, and Loki are Babylonian deities!!

[LiarsSmile]

How odd..

I recently started reading a series of books by A. A. Attanasio that deals with the similiar things.
I haven't finished the first book yet but it is an interesting read.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Like many things are, this article is True, False, and Irrelevent, all at the same time.

It is True because, yes, you can find many similarities between Norse myths and Christians myths.

It is False because most of the myths we have (at least here in the US) are from the 11th century from that one dude in Iceland -- Snorri Snurlson, if I remember correctly, which I may not. He was a Christian monk. His stories are know to be tinged by his belief but, last time I checked, it wasn't know *how much* of the stories were tinged by his beliefs and how many of them were accurate to actual pre-Christian Norse beliefs. Add that most of the Norse had been Christianized for centuries at that point, and the authenticity of the stories is really in question.

It is Irrelevent because *all* ancient religions, of the Old World, at least, were influenced by each other. Kali, the Indian goddess that wears the skirt made of human heads, and who had the Thuggees as her worshippers, is the SAME mother goddess that the Wiccans worship. One had followers who strangled people and burried them at crossroads; the other has worshippers who eat veggie burgers. But, when you trace them back, they're different aspects of the same goddess.

The author of the article suffers the failing that many specialists have. They know their specialty and can see the connections to other disciplines. What they fail to see is the myriad of other connections that exist, making their tiny snapshot of the facts both quiant and irrelevent.

 

[Shemeska]

It is Irrelevent because *all* ancient religions, of the Old World, at least, were influenced by each other. Kali, the Indian goddess that wears the skirt made of human heads, and who had the Thuggees as her worshippers, is the SAME mother goddess that the Wiccans worship. One had followers who strangled people and burried them at crossroads; the other has worshippers who eat veggie burgers. But, when you trace them back, they're different aspects of the same goddess.

Wha? I think it's a pretty shifty argument to claim that an ancient indian goddess is the exact same as that of a religion(Wicca) that is about 60 years old. Plus, the idea of a common, pan-european mother goddess isn't an idea that has been accepted by historians or archaeologists in any fashion.

Thematic commonalities? Sure. Influence upon each other in the ancient world? Sure. But to say that they're the same entity is about the same as calling Odin, Ra and YHWH the same entity. Again, spurious IMHO.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Like many things are, this article is True, False, and Irrelevent, all at the same time.

It is True because, yes, you can find many similarities between Norse myths and Christians myths.

It is False because most of the myths we have (at least here in the US) are from the 11th century from that one dude in Iceland -- Snorri Snurlson, if I remember correctly, which I may not. He was a Christian monk. His stories are know to be tinged by his belief but, last time I checked, it wasn't know *how much* of the stories were tinged by his beliefs and how many of them were accurate to actual pre-Christian Norse beliefs. Add that most of the Norse had been Christianized for centuries at that point, and the authenticity of the stories is really in question.

It is Irrelevent because *all* ancient religions, of the Old World, at least, were influenced by each other. Kali, the Indian goddess that wears the skirt made of human heads, and who had the Thuggees as her worshippers, is the SAME mother goddess that the Wiccans worship. One had followers who strangled people and burried them at crossroads; the other has worshippers who eat veggie burgers. But, when you trace them back, they're different aspects of the same goddess.

The author of the article suffers the failing that many specialists have. They know their specialty and can see the connections to other disciplines. What they fail to see is the myriad of other connections that exist, making their tiny snapshot of the facts both quiant and irrelevent.

I think you hit the nail on the head.
Nearly any culture or religion on earth can be compared to another one and indeed seem very similar. This is because we're all human and live on the same planet therefore we all think in a similar way. This is also becuase cultures interact with one another and spread ideas.

 

[Algolei]

It is False because most of the myths we have (at least here in the US) are from the 11th century from that one dude in Iceland -- Snorri Snurlson, if I remember correctly, which I may not. He was a Christian monk. His stories are know to be tinged by his belief but, last time I checked, it wasn't know *how much* of the stories were tinged by his beliefs and how many of them were accurate to actual pre-Christian Norse beliefs. Add that most of the Norse had been Christianized for centuries at that point, and the authenticity of the stories is really in question.

Yeah.

I like Rydberg's Teutonic Mythology (http://www.northvegr.org/lore/rydberg/). Lotsa interesting ideas, including some stuff about Hel and Urd--he argues that they are the same individual in earlier myths, and that Loki's daughter was not named Hel but rather Leikin. (The name Hel was transferred to her due to its similarity with the Christian Hell.)

I've used the info in it to modify my D&D-campaign Norse mythology.

 

[Torm]

But to say that they're the same entity is about the same as calling Odin, Ra and YHWH the same entity. Again, spurious IMHO.

Depends on what you mean. If you mean that that there are separate entities by those names, certainly. But if you accept that philosophical and religious intertwining has resulted in intermingling of those entities, then it may be argued that they are the same NOW. And if you believe in an overdeity who is the total of all that is and isn't in the universe, who is divided into many perspectives, such as Odin, Ra, the Tetragrammaton, Shemeska, Torm, chair, proton, etc. - and specifically by a name that I will not mention for fear of offending some of our Jewish friends here - like I happen to, then it isn't spurious at all.

It's just a matter of your point of view. [/Obi-Wan]

 

[Thotas]

I'm going to have to join the camp of "Those ideas might be great for the plot of a game, but not to be taken seriously in real-life". The All-Father that Snorri refers to as surviving Ragnarok, for example; as pointed out, the transcriber of the myths was a Christian monk. And as a Christian monk, can't have that over-god be one of the Aesir. But we all know a story from Germanic origins about somebody getting swallowed whole by a wolf, but survives because the wolf is cut in half right after. Likewise, after the Fenris Wolf swallowed Odin, his son Vidar immediately ripped the wolf in half ... so it would seem to me that, like the little girl who stole the plot, Odin, who is known as the All-father, wouldn't have died. Yes, I am saying I think the jarl of the Norse gods has more in common with Little Red Riding Hood than he does with Ra and YHWH.

And if every group that was supposed to be the lost tribes of Israel were the lost tribe of Israel, then everyone is a Jew. Not that there would be anything wrong with that per se, it's just not true.

If you're looking for an explanation for civilization springing up so suddenly in so many different places, with little archaeological evidence of it being built up as slowly as one would think, and each of those having a story of a flood that almost destroyed civilization in it's early days, I recommend a book called "Noah's Flood", I forget the authors but I'm sure Amazon dot com will know. It's got an interesting theory, not proven by a long shot, but so far as I know it's not disproven; and it seems credible. I would synopsize the idea here, but I'm not sure it wouldn't be breaking a rule or two.

 

[Torm]

Not sure if that was in response to what I said at all, but I wasn't suggesting that mankind sprang into being in one place - I was suggesting that perhaps the gods that created (or divided into, or just guided?) mankind, in many different places, all come from a common place (or more to the point, are components of the same greater entity, as we are, albeit smaller ones) themselves.

If that were the case, it would make since for certain themes to recur throughout all of the diverse cultures, to greater or lesser extents. Then again, the shared experience of simply being human may be enough to ensure that, regardless.

But don't mind me. I have been known to be 37 different suburbs of Crazytown.

 

[Ds Da Man]

Reminds me of the dragons show on Animal Planet, showing how many different civilizations, who didn't really have connections, still had artistic representaions of dragons, and they all looked fairly close. Big lizard, flying, etc...

 

[Desdichado]

And if every group that was supposed to be the lost tribes of Israel were the lost tribe of Israel, then everyone is a Jew. Not that there would be anything wrong with that per se, it's just not true.

Just to be nitpicky, the lost tribes are not the Jews. The Jews are the tribe of Judah, and were never lost.