Of gishes and arcane defencers and whatnot: Is 4th ed. language for everyone?

[Hussar]

By the way, if the word "gish" encompasses the latter two definitions, then it is not a very useful term at all.

It's like going to a car salesman and telling him that you want to buy a car. When he askes what kind of car, you reply, "A car. You know, one with four wheels. You know just the one I want, right?"

Why not? Gish means "Fighty guy" mixed with "caster guy". There's a hundred and one ways to do that in 3e. It's simply a broad term. After all, Fighter usually refers to more than just the class, except when it doesn't. Core caster refers to any class with full casting progression, not just those found in the PHB.

Your analogy is flawed. It's not going to the car dealer since that's further down the road. It's like saying to your friend, "Gee, I'd like to get a new car" and he says, "What kind of car?" To which you reply "Sports car."

What's a sports car look like? There's a bazillion different ones on the market from little two door coupe's to a Bugatti Veyron.

 

[Wolfspider]

Eh. You guys win. I can't argue about this any more. I'm losing my ability to be rational.

Interesting that a little old word like "gish" can do that to a fella.

By all means, if you want to use the term, go ahead. I can't stop you.

Although I gish...errr, wish...I could.

:\

 

[Wolfspider]

But I will make one more comment before I go.

Clearly, someone who uses the term gish wants a fighting arcane spellcaster (or an arcane spellcasting warrior), but not a specific class. Why is this DM suggesting a psionic class and a divine class?

Clearly?

"Gish . . . are most commonly fighter/wizards, but monk/sorcerers and rogue/wizards
are also gish. In addition, single-classed bards are considered gish because of their diversity of skills, blending weapon use and magical proficiency. (Likewise, if you use psionics in your game, single-classed psychic warriors are considered gish.)"
--Dungeon Magazine 100

100% Official Dungeons and Dragons Content, baby!

I will admit to being wrong about the ranger, though. Mea culpa, mea culpa.

OK, I'm done.

 

[Will]

I think the problem is that ranger spellcasting is too weak. Bard is almost a perfect gish-in-a-box, the one true single-class choice of the core classes.

Any time I contemplate some arcane/warrior 'build,' I often stop and think, 'Ok, can I pull this off as a bard?'

Saves you a lot of trouble.

 

[Zoatebix]

New? Nothing new under the sun.

About half of these really test that statement: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/12/YE_10_breakthroughs
Edit: hmm, more like a third. But transmuting blood to type-O, or skin cells to stem cells? A super-strong, stiff, transparent material? Neat-o!

 

[Zoatebix]

If that were the case, you'd regularly hear people say things like "afake, the bus leaves every half-hour", "Michael Jackson is an abhuman freak. O-to, I quite like "Thriller"" and "E-irk, Spock is half human. Correct me if I'm wrong."

Most of those abbreviations are ways of saying "how cool am I at this internet stuff?" as much as they're conveniences of communication.

A lot of these phrases are shown up in spoken English. My favorite example is the spoken "I less than three you," referring to the two-character heart <3. The use of the longer phrase when "heart" or "love" would do is often used to add a twee or wry (just to name two) subtext to the utterance.

Not that this has anything to do with Gish...

 

[Warbringer]

If WotC would like a clear understanding of a major barrier to entry of DnD to mainstream, taks a gander at this thread...

 

[Allenchan]

I just wanted to jump in and say I think the term gish is more about the implication of using the term, rather then the term's definition itself. Gish gained popularity where? Wizard's CO boards. I would argue because saying fighter/wizard had the connotation of being plain god awful. Gish has the connotation of being effective and powerful. Fighter 10/ Wizard 10, as it were, is not a Gish. Its the antithesis of the idea of a gish, and since the purpose of the board that proliferated its usage was focused on optimization, thats what its associated with.

Therefore, when I heard a designer say "gish" I think "oh sweet, some kind of warrior/caster that is going to kick butt and not be a burden!"

instead of when I heard a designer say "fighter/warrior" when I'd think "wow, a character that can do something half as good as two others, and be only a quarter as useful?"

thats my two cents.

 

[Piratecat]

I will admit to being wrong about the ranger, though. Mea culpa, mea culpa.

It's a little-known fact that "Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa" means "I'm a Kulp, I'm a Kulp, I'm a great big Kulp."

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

- Kevin "Piratecat" Kulp

 

[Lanefan]

As far as I'm concerned, whether this thread accomplishes anything at all with regard to the term, concept, or ideal known variously as "gish" is completely irrelevant; for it has given rise to "w00tHaXXor von Rofl III", and that is now the only thing that matters.

Lanefan