Offensive Bards

[wildstarsreach]

I would recommend against making a melee Bard - you have the same hitpoints a Rogue, but don't have the tactical benefit of Sneak Attack to make up for it.
It's better to rely on archery. The Inspire Courage helps archers with their better chances to make many attacks each round a lot.

Still, at higher levels, I don't think Archery will cut it (unless you consider multiclasing a good option). It might be best to stack up on Wands and Scrolls with useful spells. The difficult thing about this strategy is that you have to get accustomed to the fact that you don't have just one "trick/tactic" - you have constantly reevaluate your options based on the magical items you find - you can't rely that you have a specific spell or item available at all times, because most the time, they are consumnable and there is only so much you can stock up (especially if it is supposed to be effective against enemies of your level)

Maybe that's also the general issue with the bard - you can't play it as a "one-trick-pony". He can't just do one thing, because he only is good and useful at it under specific circumstances. You can't probably be an effective "Offensive Bard" - you must be willing to take a defensive role, too.

I'm just now playing a bard for the first time. I'm at 3rd and the character is the funnest character that I have in a long time. I have plotted out what I will take over the future levels. I got the knack play one after reading unclean and that character is a melee bard. I plan to take the sublime cord PrC out of the complete arcane. This will give the bard access to 9th level spells.

Though many of you favor the an archer, I find that archery lacks in the long run. I'm a lover of the fighter mage. So the melee bard is more preferable to me. I did take the dungeonscape bard replacement level Lore song which replaces the bardic lore for a +4 insight bonus to any attack, check or save 1 day, gaining an additional use at everry odd level. This ability makes a bard very potent in hitting. He is also taking whip, this gives him the benefit of tripping opponents so that the opponents are hindered and our front line is more effective. I'm thinking that you guys are over looking the ways to cheese a bard. I'm not saying broken but to make the character focused with options that make him valuable. Most people don't play bards unless you fall into two camps from my experience. One is the novice player who wants to start learning arcane casting and the party steers him there, or the experienced player such as myself who wants a challange and fun.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I must admit, I am not aware of all the alternative class options from splat books, so maybe there are a few things that make the bard (considerably) better in melee.

My experience with tripping is (in the role of a fighter) that it becomes harder and harder, even with a lot of feats for it. Still, it is pretty potent and a real helper - especially when more than one character is engaged in melee.
But any melee combat bard suffers from Multiple Ability Dependency, since you need Strength, Dex, Con and Cha. (You actually might not care about Charisma at some point).

On the other had, your proposed plan will eventually shift the Bard to becoming a spell caster, so that seems like a good strategy. You don't have to worry to be potent in melee for 20 levels, just for the first 8 or so. That might work.
The Bard should never try to do just one thing. It won't work too well. Flexibility and adaptability are not only required in an individual tactical situation, but for the whole bard career...)

 

[javcs]

The Summon Monster line of spells will be handy.

Granted that the bardic acquisition of them is not good, but, you're a bard, what can you expect?

 

[Darklone]

Archer bard rocks in the long run.

One good multiclass option: 4 fighter levels heading for Weapon Spec and Ranged Weapon Mastery.

Pure bards should be elven for the weapon profs.

Singleclass bard archers begin with taking PBS and Rapid Shot, next feat preferably Precise Shot or Weapon Focus. Spells: Inspirational Boost and Haste, not much more is necessary... for damage output increase: Wands of Flame Arrow (and energy subbed Flame Arrows).

 

[evermind]

as for offensive-minded bards

First pick :
PrCl Stormsinger ("Frostburn") : "Thunderstrike" and its area effect version Greater Thunderstrike" are very very hard to beat as offensive spells/SLAs, and although you have to spend two fairly useless (if athmospherically fitting ) feats to attain the PrCl initially, rolling a perform(sing) +D20 for damage on a ranged (electricity) touch at approximately level 8 is..... nasty. Reflex for half though...

Best thing - you only burn off a use of bardic music for it - and yes, since it is a ranged touch, it can cause a critical hit..... Second good thing ? It is a supernatural ability....
Power level - 8th level bard in our group started out with an effectiv perform sing of 20 (11 ranks, Cha 18, skill focus feat and Oral Tradition background feat, adding another +2 skillbonus, comparatively low charisma due to being a shield dwarf; Skill enhancing items for perform were not permitted in that campaign but... well, it was 20+D20 for damage... That approaches the level of an Orb Spell, and no spell-resistance either.)
Combines fairly well with a bardic archer build for "precise shot". Oh, you get "Control Winds", "Control weather", and "Storm of Vengeance" as well, which are extremely powerful, if indirect offensive spells ( sink a fleet, mire an army, blow away the flocks of wyverns...) - and one gets to use them powered by bardic music

Second Pick :
PrCl Seeker of the Song "Dirge of Frost, Refrain" and "Burning Melody Refrain" are fairly powerful areaaffecting elemental uses of bardic music; The acid and electricity variants are weaker and gained at rather high level, "Anthem of Thunder and Pain, Refrain" looses out to the Stormsinger's Thunderstrike any day.
Stacks nicely enough smack on top of a Stormsinger build, though. Unfortunately it has a pretty restrictive roleplaying prequisite-qualification.

Third Pick :
Lyric Thamuturgist from Complete Mage - and pick your favourite sorcerer/wizard spells for "offense". Easy to gain access too.



Offensiv spells :
Tasha's Hideous Laughter// Torrent of Tears (CompMage - I prefer this, since it does not grant the +4 save bonus for racial barriers ), Minor Image, Major Image, Charm Monster, Suggestion ------------> for all the usual reasons

"Inspirational Boost" is severly underrated, especially at lower levels (not as much if only one character actually melees or uses a weapon ), as is "improvisation" (the luck points come in very handy...), but they are "utility"

If you have a powerful melee weapon, "Whirling Blade" (SC) becomes interesting as aranged offense.

"Fugue" (SC) is very very nice, since you can basically hand-pick the desired effect every round and for every affected creature, it does affect undead and at the level when you gain access (bard 10th ), you should basically have a perform skill in the mid-twenties, which means the lesser effects are quasi-automatic (mainly 3D6 Sonic damge or knocked prone, who wants subdual damage anyway ?), and even "stun" has a fair 50/50 chance of occuring.
A 30' radius (!) spread doesn't hurt either....

"Resonating Bolt" (SC) is nice - straight damage, but only at level 10 ?

"Boreal Wind" (Frostburn) is only gained as a fifth level spell, but very powerful due to its monstrous range - a 20' wide cylinder which can be swivelled, out to long range... at 14th level that is almost a whopping 1000'. Everyone inside the AoE gets affected and possibly blown backwards for 3'/caster level.... (deadly on ships or in the mountains....). It also lasts for several rounds, doing damage and possible blowback in each.....

"modify memory" (PHB ) is one of the deadliest spells ever, if properly used. Overwhelm your target, debuff him to hell and back, then mess with his mind and make him forget ever having met you.... Subtler than Dominate Person or Charm Monster, and far harder to detect and counter.... Unfortunately it needs some pre-planning and has less use tactically. Nothing is better for interrogation either

Yes, I know I used SC references, but since most of those spells are from the earlier Compl. books.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Here's the character as he is at 3rd.

Dervis Jeaun Morden
3rd lvl Bard (Lore Song Replacement level 1) XP 3000
Align NG Race Human
Init +2 Senses Spot +0 Listen +6
Languages Common, Draconic, Elvish
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AC 18 Touch 12 Flat-footed 16
HP 24
Fort +3 Ref +5 Will +3
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee MW Longsword (+5 to hit, 1d8+2, 19-20 Crit x2)
Whip (+4 1d3+2, Crit x2)
Rngd MW Str +2 Composite Longbow (+5 to hit, 1d8+2, 110’ inc, Crit x3)
BA +2 Grppl +4
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Bonus Spells 1st, 2nd
Spells Known
1st – (2)1 Expeditious Retreat, Improvisation (SC), Inspirational Boost (SC)^
0th – (3)1 Detect Magic, Read Magic, Lullaby, Daze
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Abilities Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Chr 14
Special Qualities Bardic Music (7/day), Lore Song 2/day [+4 insight to any roll], Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1 (+2* or +3^ with Inspirational Boost)
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Feats Melodic Casting (CM), Extra Music (CAdv), Song of the Heart* (ECS)
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Skills (54) [ACP -2] Appraise (2/+4), Concentration (6/+8), Diplomacy (6/+8), Gather Info (3/+3), Know Local (2/+4), Know Arcana (2/+4), Listen (6/+6), Perform Singing (6/+8), Perform Lute (2/+4), Profession Astrologer (6/+6), Sense Motive (3/+3), Spellcraft (6/+8), Tumble (4/+6_4), Use Magic Device (1/+3)
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Possessions
Combat gear, MW chain shirt, MW heavy wooden shield, standard adventurers’ equipment, Lute, 10 GP
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I don't have the greatest of stats but sufficient to do well. And yes that sublime chord I can't qualify for until 10th level. But it is a great PrC to me.He has enough fighting to do well and is still great at being a party buffer.

 

[evermind]

hmm, since you already spend the level 3 feat, there is hardly any chance to qualify for Stormsinger before level 9

Lyric Thaumaturgist may be an option for some levels though

 

[DungeonMaester]

Arcane strike?

---Rusty

 

[Darklone]

Arcane strike?

---Rusty

If Arcane Strike is houseruled to work with ranged weapons, there's hardly anyone who can compete with a bard archer

Especially not if there are one or more additional archers in the group.

 

[wildstarsreach]

hmm, since you already spend the level 3 feat, there is hardly any chance to qualify for Stormsinger before level 9

Lyric Thaumaturgist may be an option for some levels though

I'm going for Sublime Chord in the Complete Arcane which gives access to 9th level spells by the end. You can't take the 1st level until 11th since you have to have 13 ranks in several skills. Our DM's and RAW say that that is ranks spent rather than total bonus.