OFFICAL ERRATA: Hit points *DO NOT* change in polymorph

jgsugden

Legend
The DMG errata is out.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a

Most of it was well established already (or unnecessary), but the polymorph errata clarifies:
(Polymorphers) retain their original class and level, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, hit points, base attack bonus, base save
bonuses, and alignment.
So, all of us that argued that polymorph incorporated the alter self limitation that hit points do not change were correct. Go us!
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad


Scion said:
yey! go us! ;)

now is when someone comes on to say that the dmg isnt a primary source right?
Doesn't need to be. The primary source (PHB) is not in conflict with this errata. The PHB is just vague, not wrong. This errata just clarifies how the primary text should be interpreted.

o/~ Ding dong, the witch is dead ... o/~
 

jgsugden said:
Doesn't need to be. The primary source (PHB) is not in conflict with this errata. The PHB is just vague, not wrong. This errata just clarifies how the primary text should be interpreted.

o/~ Ding dong, the witch is dead ... o/~

Didnt say that they had to make sense, lots of people bring up things that dont make sense or are just wrong ;)

It is good to have it all set down though, but I am unsure if it will actually change anyones game. Pretty much everyone decided which they would prefer already.
 

It doesn't change anything for either interpretation, since it still never explicitly references Con changes retroactively affecting hp. Arguably, what the "hp don't change" rule means is that, for example, your max hp doesn't become 29 if you change into a Ape.

How do we know that? Because this ability is inherited from alter self -- which doesn't affect a creatures Con score. So that's the only possible thing it means in the context of that spell. Polymorph inherits that and never states either way what to do with Con changes so it isn't clear.

The errata doesn't help this case at all, since it exists soley to bring the DMG inline with the already existing 3.5 PH version of polymorph (and the errata document makes that clear). And the DMG inherits the same ambiguous context of that rule.

There is no way to determine who is right or wrong in this case, since both sides continue to rely on ambiguous text. Both interpretations are equally valid, so the only thing to argue here is opinion.

IMC, Con changes due to polymorph do not affect hp totals. I don't care if that's a house rule or not. That's the way we play it.
 

da chicken said:
It doesn't change anything for either interpretation, since it still never explicitly references Con changes retroactively affecting hp. Arguably, what the "hp don't change" rule means is that, for example, your max hp doesn't become 29 if you change into a Ape.
No, that argument does not work. Hit points are a game defined term. When it says they do not change, it means that hit points do not change. Your interpretation would work if it said hit *dice* do not change, but it says hit points do not change.
 

jgsugden said:
No, that argument does not work. Hit points are a game defined term. When it says they do not change, it means that hit points do not change. Your interpretation would work if it said hit *dice* do not change, but it says hit points do not change.
Except that the errata doesn't say that the hit points don't change...
 

Caliban said:
Except that the errata doesn't say that the hit points don't change...

So the text says that they retain their hp but you are saying that it doesnt say hp dont change? What part of 'retain' means 'might or might not change'?

My dictionary says that retain means: 'to not change'
 

jgsugden said:
No, that argument does not work. Hit points are a game defined term. When it says they do not change, it means that hit points do not change. Your interpretation would work if it said hit *dice* do not change, but it says hit points do not change.

Apparently you don't get racial bonus feats anymore from polymorph.... oops?

And quite frankly I think its ridiculous to ever have a circumstance where your con changes but your hp don't.. I prefer to think that the "hitpoints don't change" bit means you don't simply take the hp the MM describes the creature as having, and that ability scores function consistantly throughout the game. Otherwise I'd hope they'd say something along the lines of "Your new con score doesn't grant you extra hp"

Con not changing hp makes just as much sense to me as saying "ok you get an extra 20 points of strength but it doesn't change your melee damage"
 

Diirk said:
Con not changing hp makes just as much sense to me as saying "ok you get an extra 20 points of strength but it doesn't change your melee damage"

Much like 'improved toughness' could be read as, '+2 con but only for purposes of hp'? or psychofeedback changing the bonus but not the actual score. These things are not without precident ;)
 

Remove ads

Top