deganawida
Hero
Yeah, and kits really provide far more customization and setting-appropriate flavor than the full-on classes, IMO. Swashbuckler fighters, for example, play quite a bit differently than other fighters.
D&D 2E On AD&D 2E
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
Bedrockgames
Legend
Re-Reading the dark sun boxed set for the first time in nearly 30 years I think. What is striking, especially on the heels of running a short 2E Ravenloft campaign using Realm of Terror boxed set is how flexible that era of D&D was in terms of settings. Ravenloft and Dark Sun are so distinct in terms of flavor, feel mechanics and presentation. There isn’t even a uniformity of visual design across the settings (the overall layout and design are strikingly different, abd Dark Sun us characterized by Brom’s art while a Ravenloft largely by Fabian)
deganawida
Hero
That era also featured designers who weren't afraid to say, "Nope, that may exist in Y campaign, but it doesn't exist here in X campaign." They would also build custom classes (sha'ir from Al-Qadim, magician and guilder from Birthright, mariner and tinker from DragonLance, and pretty much everything in Council of Wyrms) for campaign settings, as well as make changes to magic systems. All this really helped differentiate the settings.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Absolutely. It's my golden age of D&D for a reason.
bulletmeat
Adventurer
But how can you sell an MCU like multiverse if the rules keep changing?
Bedrockgames
Legend
You can go from one work to the next but are subject to any changes. Ravenloft is a good example. You might gone there from Forgotten Realms but you are subject to things like powers checks, have to deal with how powerful domain lords are (see Soth’s frustration in Knight of the Black arose), and your class abilities might be changed.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Not really the priority at the time. And history has proven that lightning isn't going to strike twice re: the MCU. It would be great if Hollywood would figure that out.
deganawida
Hero
I know it's a bit facetious, but that's one of the strengths of 2e era games IMO. Some of the changes from setting to setting are listed above this reply, but I think that the settings best existed in a vacuum, and would have loved it if each one had further deviated from the others. YMMV, of course.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
It did, but it also helped separate the fans into separate mini-markets, most of which weren't big enough to sustain TSR's efforts. I too love some of the really different stuff they produced, but I really didn't love (or even particularly like) some of the rest. This might have been OK if the different settings were being done by separate, contracted companies looking out for their own bottom lines or with less aggressive release schedules and support so that the investment didn't exceed the return. But then we'd almost certainly have had a lot less stuff and of generally more spare quality.
deganawida
Hero
Yeah, I know, reality sucks sometimes. My dream would have been finding a way to make it work.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Indeed. I think WotC's early relationship with Paizo might have yielded a model that could have worked for support of product lines with IP originating from WotC's assets but spun out for support. But when they, ultimately, turned on Paizo (whether as a deliberate policy or as a cumulative result of a set of decisions), they kind of put an end to that potential.
ValamirCleaver
Jäger aus Kurpfalz
There were many "NPC" classes such as the Bandit, Swashbuckler, Jester, Archer, Illrigger, etc... in Dragon Magazine throughout the years
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Do we have to look at every game through the metric of sales? Everyone knows that TSR split their audience with all the campaign settings. I don't care how successful they were, I loved having them and was and am very glad all that stuff came out. Can we talk about games in any other terms, or will always come down to how much money they made?
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
It’s less a question about how much money they made. Rather it’s WERE THEY SUSTAINABLE. It’s a real Pyrrhic victory to have great materials that ultimately helped kill the company.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Pyrrhic victory for TSR, maybe. Big win for the fans.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Win for the fans, at an exorbitant cost (the company producing the material so that they can’t produce more) - pretty much a textbook example of a Pyrrhic victory. For the fans.
Let's not forget the actual motivation in the situation: to make money off the distribution deal. Ina company where creatives were kept from all the business aspects, it was a huge boon. They were told to design stuff and given freedom to do so. That means they got to make what they wanted, not whatever bland crap the company demanded.
overgeeked
B/X Known World
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Ok. I still loved what we got. It was a victory for the consumer, Pyrrhic or not.
overgeeked
B/X Known World
So for everyone having a hard time with THAC0, here you go. Problem solved.
And just in case, here's one for all the other editions of TSR's D&D.
And just in case, here's one for all the other editions of TSR's D&D.
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