D&D General On Grognardism...

For us Traveller was mostly this:
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With a little bit of this:
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And once this:
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The star map was only ever a backdrop to the space opera.

Absolutely this. And the thing to remember about those early days before the internet was those RPG groups existed in almost complete isolation, so they all evolved differently.

When someone says "back then we all played like this" it's rubbish. Back then we all played differently.
I always thought Traveler was more like this
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I wonder if what Grognards miss is that initial magic of playing D&D and look fondly back with rose-colored glasses.
yeah, I'm sure that's a part of of it. Plus, the whole 'being there from nearly the beginning, when it was all new and shiny' aspect of it as well. At that time, it was one of the best ways around to really use your imagination, the days before computer games etc.
heh...If you grew up in the 60's and '70s it is amazing that we are alive ;)
considering my less than stellar diet, I find it more amazing every year...
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
I wonder if what Grognards miss is that initial magic of playing D&D and look fondly back with rose-colored glasses.
That might be part of it. But 1e was my preferred edition from 1981 to 2012, so it's not all nostalgia or rose colored glasses for me. I genuinely liked the system better than what came after. When 5e came out, that's when we finally made the switch (even though I still occasionally play 1e or OSR variants)
 



I wonder if what Grognards miss is that initial magic of playing D&D and look fondly back with rose-colored glasses. The first time you stuck your head against the door and listened to what was behind it. The surprise of opening that chest and finding that mimic. Having to split some monster from head to tail to get that gem that was in his stomach. That worry that anything could kill you, because yes we all pretty much had glass jaws (especially mages with their 1d4 hit dice and Thieves with 1d6 hit dice). Having negative hit points was pretty much death unless you hit 0 hit points exactly, none of my players in the old days had access to Raise Dead. I wonder how many dice rolls were fudged by DM's in the old days to keep from having TPK's. Leveling was pretty slow unless you ran with a Monty Hall group. Yes, I miss some of them, but by and large, I like the direction that WotC has directed 5th Edition D&D.

For me it wasn't. I transitioned into every edition up through 3rd. While fourth was the straw that broke the camels back for me, it was ultimately a sense of frustration I had that had been building up through third edition that led me to explore the older editions again. Won't run you through everything, but started looking at stuff like hex crawls again and reading the 1E DMG cover to cover. Checked out the OSR stuff and revisited 2E and read the white box and chainmail. Later I took a look at Moldvay (I grew up on Mentzer so Moldvay was legitimately new to me even though I was aware of it). I think what it boiled down to for me is looking back at my years of gaming (started in 86) it did feel like with D&D at least, something of what initially drew me to it had been lost. I thought that was nostalgia. But when I shifted to earlier editions, the game went back to feeling like it had before. There are a lot of reasons I think. I don' think it is some kind of magic bullet. But basically WOTC D&D is a very different thing from TSR D&D and I think I really am just more of a TSR D&D kind of person (and I did like 3E for quite a while, but eventually it became a bit frustrating to run, the flavor of 3rd and 4th just wasn't really resonating with me, and the mechanics weren't really what I wanted in D&D). Fifth edition came out, and I bought it, read it. Played a few games, but I had already realized I didn't really need the current edition of D&D to do what I wanted. I had my earlier editions and plenty of OSR stuff to use. And I mostly played other games anyways. So when I do play D&D, I like to go with the older stuff these days. I think it is preference, not nostalgia.
 

TGryph

Explorer
For me it wasn't. I transitioned into every edition up through 3rd. While fourth was the straw that broke the camels back for me, it was ultimately a sense of frustration I had that had been building up through third edition that led me to explore the older editions again. Won't run you through everything, but started looking at stuff like hex crawls again and reading the 1E DMG cover to cover. Checked out the OSR stuff and revisited 2E and read the white box and chainmail. Later I took a look at Moldvay (I grew up on Mentzer so Moldvay was legitimately new to me even though I was aware of it). I think what it boiled down to for me is looking back at my years of gaming (started in 86) it did feel like with D&D at least, something of what initially drew me to it had been lost. I thought that was nostalgia. But when I shifted to earlier editions, the game went back to feeling like it had before. There are a lot of reasons I think. I don' think it is some kind of magic bullet. But basically WOTC D&D is a very different thing from TSR D&D and I think I really am just more of a TSR D&D kind of person (and I did like 3E for quite a while, but eventually it became a bit frustrating to run, the flavor of 3rd and 4th just wasn't really resonating with me, and the mechanics weren't really what I wanted in D&D). Fifth edition came out, and I bought it, read it. Played a few games, but I had already realized I didn't really need the current edition of D&D to do what I wanted. I had my earlier editions and plenty of OSR stuff to use. And I mostly played other games anyways. So when I do play D&D, I like to go with the older stuff these days. I think it is preference, not nostalgia.
I very much agree. Played all editions, and keep going back to the Olden Days. I have a great preference for the freedom these less structured rules give me than the more recent ones.
 

I very much agree. Played all editions, and keep going back to the Olden Days. I have a great preference for the freedom these less structured rules give me than the more recent ones.
That's why I like 5E...its roots are definitely D&D. It cleaned up things that bothered me like AC. Not just THAC0, but the you can't hit it if you tried AC -8. Those higher AC's pretty well made fighters worthless other than as meat bags so that mages could kill it. I don't think Gary really considered those issues when he designed D&D. 5E is not perfect, but it's very playable and we enjoy it. It has enough crunch without getting lost in it like 3.5.
 

Democratus

Adventurer
That's why I like 5E...its roots are definitely D&D. It cleaned up things that bothered me like AC. Not just THAC0, but the you can't hit it if you tried AC -8. Those higher AC's pretty well made fighters worthless other than as meat bags so that mages could kill it. I don't think Gary really considered those issues when he designed D&D. 5E is not perfect, but it's very playable and we enjoy it. It has enough crunch without getting lost in it like 3.5.
Those are the kinds of encounters where players in RPGs can shine. Creature is too difficult to directly attack? Think of something else.

I've seen some great creativity come from situations where the players were facing somehing they knew would easily best them in combat. Once, they tricked it into a tomb and sealed it in forever. In another instance, they set up a cave-in to bury an enemy who was so armored they were practically untouchable. They then diverted water from a nearby stream to flood the cave and finish the foe.

In a game a couple of years ago, the players arranged for one arch enemy to chase them into the lair of another arch enemy. The two baddies fought until one was dead and the other sufficiently weakened to allow them to finish it off.
 

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