D&D 5E On Orcish Grandmothers (=poor spells)

[CapnZapp]

I just read the entire thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-the-Bad-and-the-Downright-Orcish-Grandmother

And it seems to boil down to this list of weak-sauce spells:

• Maze
• Mordenkainen's Sword
• Ray of Enfeeblement
• Vampiric Touch
• Weird
• Witch Bolt

This list does not include any spell that got a mixed reception (with the infamous exception of Witch Bolt...)

First question: is there any other spell you feel should be on this list. After all, we've had a few months continued play test by now.

Second, a comment: Only six spells - I'd say that's a pretty good grade on the PHB!

Third: has there emerged any kind of community consensus on how to fix each of these spells?

Thx,

 

[Blue]

True Strike. With it's "next turn" and concentration, it doesn't even work well as a bonus action before casting.

And yeah, it does speak well. Not everything is going to be the best, but if you can confidently pick whatever spell you want your character to have and know it's competitive, that's good.

 

[Paraxis]

There are some cantrips that deserve to be on the list like true strike, are just bad all the time. Some cantrips like blade ward and spare the dying are so situational that for the most part no one should ever take them either.

Ohh and contagion, it is either a legendary monster slaying amazing spell that every PC that can prepare it should always do so, or it is mostly a waste of time for PC's and more of a plot device spell for evil NPC's that doesn't do much in combat at all, depending on how the DM interprets when the effects start. So check with your DM.

 

[Gadget]

I would add dwarmij's Instant summons to the list. For a spell that high of a level, I would expect more. It seems to be more of a leftover from the Gygaxian player vs. DM killer dungeon dynamic where summoning the right object from your 'secret base' stash could make a big difference, but seems to have faded in utility over time. Indeed the devs may have dimly realized this, as it used to be a 7th level spell in previous editions whereas now it is 6th, but I still submit that it is far to situational and to little benefit for a sixth level spell slot (the one saving grace is that it can be cast as a ritual, which is the only way I would see this being used, but still). If it were a couple of levels lower, it might see some niche use as a utility spell. Maybe.

 

[Astrosicebear]

True Strike. With it's "next turn" and concentration, it doesn't even work well as a bonus action before casting.

And yeah, it does speak well. Not everything is going to be the best, but if you can confidently pick whatever spell you want your character to have and know it's competitive, that's good.

Disagree. My party's rogue has been using it very effectively with mobility.

 

[Paraxis]

Disagree. My party's rogue has been using it very effectively with mobility.

Can you explain how?

It is an action to cast, requires concentration, and doesn't work until the caster's next turn.

So the rogue is giving up his attack to cast it possibly two if he uses two weapons or some other way makes multiple attacks to cast this cantrip, if he takes damage before his next turn there is a good chance he will fail to maintain concentration, since it doesn't kick in until the next round it can't be combined with eldritch knight war mage ability, I just don't see it.

The only time a rogue would gain benefit from the spell would be if he couldn't get advantage any other way, like no place to use his cunning action to hide, and had no allies adjacent to any enemies. I don't see that happening, a rogue would have to be by himself and without any place to hide and in a situation where spending his action to boost his next turn's attack is ideal.

 

[Blue]

Disagree. My party's rogue has been using it very effectively with mobility.

Fair enough. Under normal usage it doesn't play well with bonus action casting and does prevent you from having another concentration spell. But you brought up that it has valid corner cases where you can get a lot of utility from it. More than fair, I'll remove my nomination of True Strike as an Orcish Grandmother.

 

[PnPgamer]

Rayof sickness and color spray.
Color spray grants blindness to creatures that fail the save in its area, but onlyfor 1 round. One might argue that it is mediocre, but there are better ones in the spell lists.

Ray of sickness is just horrid, it does 2d8 damage, requires a hit, then makes enemy to save or poisoned. On comparison magic missile does automatic damage averaging greater than it.

Oh and blade ward is pretty horrid. If you use it you get half the damage, but you haven't progressed in your own goal, which is kill the enemy.

 

[Astrosicebear]

Can you explain how?


The only time a rogue would gain benefit from the spell would be if he couldn't get advantage any other way, like no place to use his cunning action to hide, and had no allies adjacent to any enemies. I don't see that happening, a rogue would have to be by himself and without any place to hide and in a situation where spending his action to boost his next turn's attack is ideal.

That's exactly whats happening. Halfling Arcane Trickster. So hes usually acting first, before the fighters go. He usually moves in with mobility and takes out the biggest threat if he can. Sometimes he hides first and waits a round for the field to position. But True strike isnt an every round thing for him, but it is a great go-to spell when theres no immediate targets, and he cant sneak attack. So he usually casts it and hides, then next round gets a good bit of damage in... especially if there are no allies to grant sneak on a target.. with my party's fighter/barb combo, not much stands in melee for more than a round or two.

Yes its a very situational spell. Yes it seems to apply very weakly as a cantrip to most... but a trickster rogue makes very good use of it.

 

[Sage Genesis]

So he usually casts it and hides, then next round gets a good bit of damage in... especially if there are no allies to grant sneak on a target..

But if you're hidden then you already have advantage on the attack next round. Your strategy is quite literally to cast a spell to grant yourself advantage and then follow up with an action that grants you advantage.