Once per day non-magical effects destroy suspension of disbelief

[Mallus]

4E is not as implausible as 3E, its even more implausible.

And you're more drunk after six martinis than you are after five. But either way, you're still past the point where counting had any relevance.

 

[Fifth Element]

So, what you're saying is you'd really rather be playing Palladium RPG? Because, you know.. they've been doing that for over 25 years. Oh, and don't forget to give armor and shields SDC... er... HP so they're damaged when they get hit.

How do you reach that conclusion? Cadfan was describing something that can help narrate the results of combat, so that a miss isn't just "he misses". No new mechanics, just the logic of the D&D AC system spelled out. The AC system assumes what Cadfan has spelled out, but lumps it into a single number.

 

[mmadsen]

When I'm roleplaying, I put myself in the shoes of my characters and try to make the same decisions they would make. The resolution of the course of action I decide upon will be done using mechanics my character has no awareness of -- but because there is a direct one-to-one mapping between those mechanics and the game world -- I don't become dissociated from my character.

I like to think that a good set of rules models "reality" -- we have to put "reality" in quotes to stave off the pedants -- well enough that the players can make their decisions without reference to the rules.

With a good set of war game rules, a real-life officer should be able to play and win without knowing the actual rules -- presumably with the help of a referee or aide-de-camp translating his orders into game moves.

But that's obviously a simulationist point of view -- terribly, terribly out of style.

For the character, they're just taking advantage of an opportunity which has presented itself. But I, as a player, am deciding when that opportunity happens. My experience and the character's experience have been sundered.

Exactly.

Describing these as "Voltron mechanics" or narrative mechanics has a bit more mileage to it. I'm certainly willing to accept the inherent disadvantages dissociated mechanics if I'm trading those off against the advantages of gaining meaningful narrative control. But, personally, I don't consider "when does Voltron pull out his Win the Battle Sword?" to be meaningful narrative control.

LOL. I am definitely adding Voltron mechanics to my lexicon.

 

[Fifth Element]

My experience and the character's experience have been sundered.

Sorry, sundering is in 3rd edition, not 4th.

 

[Ahglock]

And you're more drunk after six martinis than you are after five. But either way, you're still past the point where counting had any relevance.

Yeah, but to some its not 5 martinis or 6. Its slightly tipsy and need to wait a while before driving with 3e. And so drunk you have to crawl up stairs and end up peeing yourself because you can't work your zipper, or button, with 4e.

 

[Mallus]

Its slightly tipsy and need to wait a while before driving with 3e. And so drunk you have to crawl up stairs and end up peeing yourself because you can't work your zipper, or button, with 4e.

Oh sure, people claim they're only a little tipsy with 3e... and then they slam their characters through three prestige classes and a poor, unsuspecting template nonetheless.

 

[Ahglock]

Oh sure, people claim they're only a little tipsy with 3e... and then they slam their characters through three prestige classes and a poor, unsuspecting template nonetheless.

What people can do to manipulate a system and wreck another's suspension of disbelief doesn't mean much to me. What the game is at its core without without some rules
tweaker is what matters. And for me the once a day non-magical abilities are a much larger jarring effect than 3e was on its whole, assuming someone isn't' going out of there way to make an absurd character. The few once a day non-magicals in 3e I did not like as well, but they were not so pervasive and could be more easily ignored. But hey 3e had enough problems that I don't think I'll be going back to it unless pathfinder really does a major overhaul.

 

[hong]

I like to think that a good set of rules models "reality" -- we have to put "reality" in quotes to stave off the pedants -- well enough that the players can make their decisions without reference to the rules.

4E models "reality" perfectly well. Of course, this "happens" to be "action movie" "reality", not "reality" "reality".

 

[hong]

And you're more drunk after six martinis than you are after five. But either way, you're still past the point where counting had any relevance.

"I know what you're thinking. Hash he drunk sixsh martinis, or only five? So ashk yourshelf, punk. Do yoush feel lucky? Hic."

 

[Toras]

4E models "reality" perfectly well. Of course, this "happens" to be "action movie" "reality", not "reality" "reality".

Which is fine unless you think, as this results in "Last Action Hero" syndrom or a tendency to deconstruction ala "Scream".