One Class

[Master of Monkeys]

Hmm.... I think when the board moved, no one came with it.

It appears that people only came to the thread to tell me to move it... that's disappointing.

 

[widderslainte]

I'd certainly drop it down to the main four classes. I always thought the Barbarian was just an excuse to rage. Certainly not sorcerors, and the paladin should be a prestige class if anything.

One class? I don't know. At that point you real have zero classes. I'd love to see more though. I could easily see taking it down to two classes, spell casting and not. If you move healing spells over to a single spell list, you could turn the cleric into a couple feats. I'm sure why you'd exempt the rogue.

Keep writing. I'd like to see more.

 

[Master of Monkeys]

I'd certainly drop it down to the main four classes. I always thought the Barbarian was just an excuse to rage. Certainly not sorcerors, and the paladin should be a prestige class if anything.

One class? I don't know. At that point you real have zero classes. I'd love to see more though. I could easily see taking it down to two classes, spell casting and not. If you move healing spells over to a single spell list, you could turn the cleric into a couple feats. I'm sure why you'd exempt the rogue.

Keep writing. I'd like to see more.

I think we should move it down to one class (you're right, its basically classless) and use a skills and feats casting system.

I would probably do a system like the one that follows for arcane magic:

Arcane magic would still have the normal schools: Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation. Each of these schools becomes a skill, the characters rank in a skill determines his DC for resisting his spells as follows: DC = Level of the spell + Ranks in the school.

The skills would have intelligence as their attribute and the first rank in the skill costs 4 because it is harder to first learn magic than to go on. Max ranks are equal to the characters level to reflect the plus 3 cost on the skill.

At max ranks in these skills, this would place the the DC to resist spells at what it normally is for wizards.

A first level pure arcane caster should be able to have one rank in each of those classes at first level with 2 + int modifier skill points x 4 left which means they would have to be able to get 10 + int modifier skill points per level. This would mean that wizard characters wouldn't be able to take combat abilities because they spend all their feats on extra skill points which makes sense.

This system wouldn't work as is and is, because a rogue almost starts out with almost 10 + int modifier skill points per level and a lot of extra abilities, so to reflect that sneak attack and all the rogues other advantages are better than 2 more skill points a level, a lot of feats would have to be spent on getting new spells per day, which I totally left out because I haven't thought of a system yet.

This makes humans better casters than every other race, which probably shouldn't be true based on the fact that I am trying to make this as much like normal D&D as possible. Another problem is that the magic skills would probably be the best ones, everyone would spend an extra feat and all their left over skill points on some sort of magic skill, which I guess in hindsight, isn't awful, the loss of a few abilities and skill points should give a class the ability to cast magic.

 

[Master of Monkeys]

I just thought of this, the feat system I have been working on would be a good way around sucky rangers, if you don't like favored enemy, don't take it, if you don't want to cast cleric spells, don't.

 

[Master of Monkeys]

Since I am the only one here, I am thinking, you guys are waiting for more work, so I will add a little more.

If the base class starts with the worst of all abilities (except feats), which it will, then the base class is as follows (not including feats which there is no number for how much there should be are):

BASE CLASS
The base class is the class that all adventurers start as, it is the weakest in everything except feats. They start out with no class skills because no single skill is shared across all classes.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
The base class has the following game statistics.
Abilities: Intelligence is important to most any class because of the extra skill points, but to casters especially.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d4.

Class Skills
The base class has no class skills.

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the base class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The base class is proficient in the use of the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff. The base class is not proficient with any type of armor nor with shields. Note that armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble. Also, Swim checks suffer a -1 penalty for every 5 pounds of equipment carried.

[SIZE=3][COLOR=silver][B]        Base           Fort  Ref   Will
Level   Attack Bonus   Save  Save  Save[/B]
  1     +0             +0    +0    +0
  2     +1             +0    +0    +0
  3     +1             +1    +1    +1
  4     +2             +1    +1    +1
  5     +2             +1    +1    +1
  6     +3             +2    +2    +2
  7     +3             +2    +2    +2
  8     +4             +2    +2    +2
  9     +4             +3    +3    +3
 10     +5             +3    +3    +3
 11     +5             +3    +3    +3
 12     +6/+1          +4    +4    +4
 13     +6/+1          +4    +4    +4
 14     +7/+2          +4    +4    +4
 15     +7/+2          +5    +5    +5
 16     +8/+3          +5    +5    +5
 17     +8/+3          +5    +5    +5
 18     +9/+4          +6    +6    +6
 19     +9/+4          +6    +6    +6
 20     +10/+5         +6    +6    +6[/COLOR][/SIZE]

A 1st level character, under the classless system, should be able to get d10 hit points, which is 3 better than the starting hit dice, d4 (d4, d6, d8, d10). Have a base attack of one better than the base class.

A barbarian has 10 class skills; a bard has 27 not counting all knowledge skills, 3 of which are exclusive skills; a cleric has 9 class skills, a druid has 13, 2 of which are exclusive skills; a fighter has 6; a monk has 15; a paladin has 8; a ranger has 19, 1 is exclusive; a rogue has 31, 3 are exclusive; a sorcerer has 7, 1 is exclusive; a wizard has 6, 1 is exclusive not counting all knowledge skills.

Not counting exclusive skills, the class skills are 10, 24, 9, 11, 6, 15, 8, 18, 28, 6, and 5; which means there is no highest common factor besides one which means some sort of system has to give out one class skill each.

By the way, why is the barbarian a culture and not a class? How does rage work? Going berserk is not a fighting style that I know of. Berserk should be a feat at least, all the other stuff of a barbarians is more about fighting style.

EDIT: Earlier, when my keyboard shorted, I had to type about half of the above using windows on-screen keyboard, so sorry if things seem a bit choppy.

 

[bloodymage]

Classless D&D

I'm working on my own classless system M of M but going at it from a different direction. I didn't see your work until today. Interesting stuff. I notice in your last post you allocate skill points among "classes." My goal is just a list of skills my players can choose from with a number of skill points based on ?. Relative age? They then build their characters from a "base person" (racial differences?). No classes (except player defined), no templates, no PrC's, no feats. Right now I'm sticking with defining "class skills." I might be able to plug some of your stuff into my concept later on. Maybe you could use some of mine.

 

[Master of Monkeys]

Re: Classless D&D

I'm working on my own classless system M of M but going at it from a different direction. I didn't see your work until today. Interesting stuff. I notice in your last post you allocate skill points among "classes." My goal is just a list of skills my players can choose from with a number of skill points based on ?. Relative age? They then build their characters from a "base person" (racial differences?). No classes (except player defined), no templates, no PrC's, no feats. Right now I'm sticking with defining "class skills." I might be able to plug some of your stuff into my concept later on. Maybe you could use some of mine.

Yeah, I just found your stuff a second ago, too. I definately think we could share some ideas.

 

[bloodymage]

Its been done, sorta...

go here...

http://www.netflash.net/llanade/redleafgames/index.php

Checkout (de)liberation.

Just checked it out, saved it as a matter of fact. Only real problem I have with it, at first glance, and tweaking it to my own concept is that I have a real problem with feats in 3e. Suddenly, you can do a whole lot more today than you could yesterday. Now I understand I can 0 rule training for feats but I'm still not clear on why feats and skills should be differentiated other than skills make sense to me and feats don't. Am I conducting a pointless sematics battle with myself? Could I call all new or improved capabilities skills?

 

[AGGEMAM]

Since I am the only one here, I am thinking, you guys are waiting for more work, so I will add a little more.

The house rule forum is slower, yes, but that doesn't mean nothing happens, remember some of us have to sleep, once in a while, check where I live.

The system I'm working on is a system with trainable abilities, skills, and feats.

Let me explain. I have currently a fighting (armed, ranged and unarmed), sorcerory, wizardry, divine, channeling, and saving (fort, reflex, and will) abilities. More could be added.

Each of these abilities have a range from level 0 equaling no ability to 20 highest standard, could easily be scaled up further. You have to buy access to the abilities you want first, then improve at a max of one every level thereafter.

The HD question is solved by given a set number of HPs insted of a HD for each of the different abilities.

I should also note that I work with progessive costs, that is a ability costs 1 point to raise it from level 0 to 1, 2 pts from 1 to 2, etc. This is to maintain the "multiclassing" feel, if you have numreous abilities, it's hard to stay focused.