One D&D is one D&D too much (-)


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BookTenTiger

He / Him
I think the idea here is that these may be previews masquerading as playtests for marketing purposes.

Probably. I expect 80%+ of everything will be "loved" in the feedback to be accepted....
If I'm remembering right, a lot of stuff got cut out or changed from the D&D Next playtest. I'm guessing this one will go the same. A lot of wild ideas, not all of them making it to the end.
 

I think the idea here is that these may be previews masquerading as playtests for marketing purposes.
I think it’s a mixed bag. It’s largely promotional and I am a skeptic.

But I do believe they tweak it with player feedback a la UA.

Well…I may be too skeptical. Look at D&D next. You can’t even find some
Of it anymore…they did make changes.

I say mess with this and give feedback
 

James Gasik

Legend
Oh probably, it's a conspiracy theory, no doubt about it. But since WotC won't explain why we ended up with the 5e Sorcerer after the extensive playtest, for example, and didn't take steps to even fix the Sorcerer in a small way for several years, it sure may feel like someone at WotC hates the Sorcerer

Especially since it's far from the first time the Sorcerer has been shortchanged...
 

Micah Sweet

Legend
I think it’s a mixed bag. It’s largely promotional and I am a skeptic.

But I do believe they tweak it with player feedback a la UA.

Well…I may be too skeptical. Look at D&D next. You can’t even find some
Of it anymore…they did make changes.

I say mess with this and give feedback
Nah, I have Level Up anyway, and my opinions aren't going to sway a corporation. I'm mostly just curious (trying very hard not to be bitter) and very concerned about third party knock on effects. I really don't want this to change Level Up, which is by far the best version of 5e I've ever seen.
 

Nah, I have Level Up anyway, and my opinions aren't going to sway a corporation. I'm mostly just curious (trying very hard not to be bitter) and very concerned about third party knock on effects. I really don't want this to change Level Up, which is by far the best version of 5e I've ever seen.
I get it.

However, Next really changed.

But then again this will be more bounded…with fewer degrees of freedom if it is to stay compatible.

You convinced me! Sorry. I have been on the outs even in this edition. I get the sentiment…
 

Having time to read the new UA for 1DD material, here is my in-depth critique. Notice, this is a (-) thread, so feel free to disagree all you want. :)

//// BEGIN RANT ////

Determine Your Origin
- Children of Different Humanoid Kinds: Oi... So, you have the TRAITS of a Halfling, but look like a Gnome. Great, as far as the game is concerned, you're still Halfling. Now, if you got to pick different traits from each race to make something which was actually combined, that would be okay. But that wasn't how this was written, unfortunately. Maybe it was their intent?

- Size has no bearing here. Whether Medium or Small, you occupy the same 5-foot space. If you aren't going to have a meaningful differentiation between the two sizes, why bother having it? The range of Small also changes, which is laughable. It is 2-4 feet for humans, but 3-4 feet for ardlings.

- Ardlings. No. Just no. Buy hey, with Angelic Flight I can finally have a pig-PC who can fly.

- Dragonborn. So, no small dragonborn then? Hmm... At least they gave them Darkvision (one of the few races it actually makes sense to have it...).

- Dwarf. Also, no small dwarves? Hmm... No Lineage options for dwarves (you aren't special enough). Forge Wise. Great, now I get to pick from other tools which have little use in the game. Just give them ANY two tool proficiencies of their choice. Stonecunning. What is the logic behind this? Espcially with limited uses? So, I can see this now:

Player: I want focus on the stonework to sense movement.
DM: You've already done that twice, you can't do it again.
Player: Um, why not, does my senses not work any more?
DM: Uh, I guess it is to balance the game. shrugs

- Elf. Wow, no small elf, either. I'm seeing a trend here... Lineage. Sweet, nice to know my drow with INT 18 can use that instead of having to use my CHA 8 for that Faerie Fire saving throw! Why not tie the ability to the appropriate spells? Oh, that's right, we can't have limits in D&D.

- Gnome. Wait, where is my Medium-size gnome option! Not cool. What about all those Gnome gardenball players? At least you have Lineage options...

- Halflings. Sorry, you can't be Medium either. But don't worry, it makes no difference in the game anyway other than you can move through those enemy Medium-size spaces. Oh, and no lineage options for you, either!

- Orc. Sorry, not half, but all Orc. You can be a Half-Orc still, and mechanically just be an Orc that looks Human or whatever, or be an Human or whatever and look like an Orc! Yeah, that's the ticket.

- TEF-ling. No, TEEF-ling, my bad. At least you can be small or medium like the other special races but you get legacies. Um, no legacy for cold damage, but hey necrotic is there. Seems odd since more fiends have resistance to cold than necrotic, but whateves.

BUILD YOUR BACKGROUND (only 19.95 and you can take it home with you!)

- Moving "fixed" ASIs to Background. So, people got offended by racial fixed ASIs (No way! Your Goliath just can't be stronger than my Halfling!!!) so they made them "floating." Now they moved them to background, but now they are "fixed" again in the example backgrounds (which people will read that way, you know they will...). When, in reality, they are still floating because backgrounds are completely customizable. This change does nothing really. ASIs still float, so why bother tying them to background either? Now, we can listen to people complain "No way! Your Soldier just can't be smarter than my Sage!"

- Feats at 1st level. Great! All for it. But again, why tie it to Background?

- Two skills, one tool, one language. Pretty standard stuff.


FEATS
Level requirements? Really? How about trying to balance out the feats instead? Too hard? Oh, ok, then level requirements it is...

Repeating Feats? Seriously, there was only ONE before, so unless you plan to have several, this is pointless. Just make each feat only selectable once.

- Alert. Good nerf but you went too far. Unless you are just planning to downgrade the general power level of feats (which I am all for otherwise!).

- Healer. Right, let's nerf the best non-magical healing--oh, wait, the only non-magical healing--in the game. Guess they want everyone to use ye ol' healin' magic. Bring back the healing wands and heal-bot PCs!

- Lucky. Let's make one of the strongest feats in the game EVEN BETTER.

- Magic Initiate. Sure, why not make THIS ONE repeatable. Can't have enough magic in a magical game, huh? Oh, and let's make it so players can swap out those spell choices. Heaven forbid someone actually as to live with a choice they made...

- Savage Attacker. Lame before and they made it even MORE lame. I didn't think it was possible, but they did it. At least before you could benefit on it from any weapon attack (even if you didn't take the Attack action) and you could use it on other creatures turns if you got an OA or something. It works out to less than a +1 to damage once per round. yeah... yawns

- Skilled. Ok, so you can repeat Skilled, but you can't repeat Crafter or Musician? I guess those additional tools or instruments are just too hard to learn.

- Tavern Brawler. Take a decent feat and make it worse. The damage reroll will happen enough to make it annoying, and the benefit is only 0.375 extra damage. Why bother? Honestly? Oh, and you don't have to use that Bonus Action now, but you also can't grapple, just a little shove. I suppose if they are next to the pit or cliff that could increase your damage a lot. Furniture as Weapon? Oi... at least proficiency in improvised weapons gave you a lot more options.

D20 Test? (Failed!)
Seriously, most players already thought a 1 always fails and a 20 always succeeds on ablity checks and saves. Glad you guys finally caught up.

Critical Hits
No more critical spells and no critical unarmed strikes for 2 damage instead of 1. I guess they found a way to nerf casters and I'm glad they cleared up that extra damage issue on unarmed strikes. That extra point of damage killed more PCs...

Grappled
Great, I am sure all the players will love having their targets get free chances to escape and not have to use their Action for that anymore.

Inspiration
So, something few groups remembered, let alone used, is now "automatic" each day. Just keep upping that power level, WotC... drip, drip, drip...

SPELL LISTS
Took you long enough....

//// END RANT ////

I finally found the words, and they weren't enough.
If plus means we mustn't critique each other to does minus mean we must lol?

But let's see:

1) Kind of agree - they need a better system for mixed characters or just don't do them. Maybe look at what PF2 did, as if they ripped that off, they'd cause 90% of people critiquing this system to go to bloody war with each other (as about 45% are earnest PF2 supporters, and 45% also thing PF2 did it wrong).

2) Aardlings yes, Aasimar no. But no to both of their names. Just like, call them Daevas or something. Man Daevas were SO much freaking cooler than either of these Angel-Furs or Tieflings for Teacher's Pet. Why did we ever get rid of Daevas? Doesn't make any sense. They were like, awesome.

3) THERE ARE NO SMALL DWARVES!!! is just a great thing to randomly yell at people. Also just hilariously stupid.

4) Yeah that's dumb re: no cold resist for Teethlings, pretty sure with 2E Tefalings that was one of the most common things they could have (maybe even built in?).

5) No medium halflings is a brutal insult to the dear memory of Bandobras Took, who was taller than a lot of Dwarves!

6) Backgrounds - Seriously. Agree. Why tie anything to them except maybe Skills? The idea that your Feat has to come from your background seems inherently dim. Language even dimmer.

And they've screwed it up completely again by giving us tons of "Default" backgrounds, which they have to bloody realize most people will read as "THE ONLY BACKGROUNDS THAT ARE LEGAL!!!".

7) Level requirements for Feats is going to end poorly for sure. They'll screw it up. They'll make Feats much worse than L1 Feats require L8, and Feats that are ridiculously nutso powerful be L4.

8) Healer changes - Yeah wth? Why did they nerf the non-magic healing? So dumb. It was already not great. Just add the magic bit on for goodness sake.

9) Savage Attacker - I laughed pretty hard when I saw they'd managed to make one of the very worst Feats even worse.

10) Inspiration is still ultra-trash, not sure why you're worried about balance. It'll just be this dumb thing people forget to use except now everyone will be cursing up a storm when they roll a 20 because everyone in the party already has Inspiration, or everyone but that jerk who keeps using it for trivial bollocks and thus effectively forcing every new point on to him.

They make this ridiculous song-and-dance about how they're making so the game is more like how it's really played, and they don't let Inspiration be either:

A) Added "after the fact"

or

B) Simply used to re-roll

Pretty much everyone who even uses it, uses it that way. They also don't let people have more than 1 point, which is so, so dumb. Like, I get limiting it, but to 1? No. Go away. Rethink!

11) Spell lists I kind of like this idea but I also hate this idea. So long as they give every class any extra spells it needs (which is a bunch for Bards, for example), then sure, I guess. I do like Primal coming back.
 





Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
You are just as welcome to your opinion as I am to mine.
They've listened to feedback for the D&D Next playtest, previous Unearthed Arcana surveys, and for community backlash after changes that weren't playtested (the removal of alignment from 5e books last year, problematic parts of books, etc). There is no reason to suspect that this time would be any different.
 
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You are just as welcome to your opinion as I am to mine.
I am cautiously optimistic but do not think you are dumb for not getting your hopes up.

I played 1e right to 3.0…and then maybe should have stuck with it!

I like some of what I have seen for playtesting.

I really like backgrounds and feats/ASI working together but if there is a clause that legalized decoupling them, you can bet people will. This does not make the game grounded. That has to be a agreement among the group.

Once again who you play with is every bit as important as what you are playing. With the right group, I think this could be interesting. And with the wrong group it will suck.

Keep playing what you like and don’t get discouraged. I have been left behind in a big way several times but the core fun is always still going to be there.
 


I suspect ASIs will still be in the core mix. I don't think we're going to see a return to a 3e-style feat-heavy leveling. But, if they were they to move them to optional, I think they'd need to bump up the standard array/ point buy numbers.

My question is are feats replacing ASIs or are Feats default and ASIs optional? Or will ASIs be a "Feat" that you can take at higher levels.
 


dave2008

Legend
I think the idea here is that these may be previews masquerading as playtests for marketing purposes.
Seems unlikely how they stressed it was a playtest in the video and how the Next playtest went (and people had the same fears you share here back then too).

Now, I think people are mistaken if they think everything is on the table for revisions. If that is what you think they are suggesting with this playtest, then yes it could feel like a sham. This is a playtest for a very narrow set of options/revisions/tweaks. They still very much want this to be 5e and a lot is simply not on the table for discussion. But what is up for discussion, I believe the honestly want peoples thoughts and opinions.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Having time to read the new UA for 1DD material, here is my in-depth critique. Notice, this is a (-) thread, so feel free to disagree all you want. :)

//// BEGIN RANT ////

Determine Your Origin
- Children of Different Humanoid Kinds: Oi... So, you have the TRAITS of a Halfling, but look like a Gnome. Great, as far as the game is concerned, you're still Halfling. Now, if you got to pick different traits from each race to make something which was actually combined, that would be okay. But that wasn't how this was written, unfortunately. Maybe it was their intent?

- Size has no bearing here. Whether Medium or Small, you occupy the same 5-foot space. If you aren't going to have a meaningful differentiation between the two sizes, why bother having it? The range of Small also changes, which is laughable. It is 2-4 feet for humans, but 3-4 feet for ardlings.

- Ardlings. No. Just no. Buy hey, with Angelic Flight I can finally have a pig-PC who can fly.

- Dragonborn. So, no small dragonborn then? Hmm... At least they gave them Darkvision (one of the few races it actually makes sense to have it...).

- Dwarf. Also, no small dwarves? Hmm... No Lineage options for dwarves (you aren't special enough). Forge Wise. Great, now I get to pick from other tools which have little use in the game. Just give them ANY two tool proficiencies of their choice. Stonecunning. What is the logic behind this? Espcially with limited uses? So, I can see this now:

Player: I want focus on the stonework to sense movement.
DM: You've already done that twice, you can't do it again.
Player: Um, why not, does my senses not work any more?
DM: Uh, I guess it is to balance the game. shrugs

- Elf. Wow, no small elf, either. I'm seeing a trend here... Lineage. Sweet, nice to know my drow with INT 18 can use that instead of having to use my CHA 8 for that Faerie Fire saving throw! Why not tie the ability to the appropriate spells? Oh, that's right, we can't have limits in D&D.

- Gnome. Wait, where is my Medium-size gnome option! Not cool. What about all those Gnome gardenball players? At least you have Lineage options...

- Halflings. Sorry, you can't be Medium either. But don't worry, it makes no difference in the game anyway other than you can move through those enemy Medium-size spaces. Oh, and no lineage options for you, either!

- Orc. Sorry, not half, but all Orc. You can be a Half-Orc still, and mechanically just be an Orc that looks Human or whatever, or be an Human or whatever and look like an Orc! Yeah, that's the ticket.

- TEF-ling. No, TEEF-ling, my bad. At least you can be small or medium like the other special races but you get legacies. Um, no legacy for cold damage, but hey necrotic is there. Seems odd since more fiends have resistance to cold than necrotic, but whateves.

BUILD YOUR BACKGROUND (only 19.95 and you can take it home with you!)

- Moving "fixed" ASIs to Background. So, people got offended by racial fixed ASIs (No way! Your Goliath just can't be stronger than my Halfling!!!) so they made them "floating." Now they moved them to background, but now they are "fixed" again in the example backgrounds (which people will read that way, you know they will...). When, in reality, they are still floating because backgrounds are completely customizable. This change does nothing really. ASIs still float, so why bother tying them to background either? Now, we can listen to people complain "No way! Your Soldier just can't be smarter than my Sage!"

- Feats at 1st level. Great! All for it. But again, why tie it to Background?

- Two skills, one tool, one language. Pretty standard stuff.


FEATS
Level requirements? Really? How about trying to balance out the feats instead? Too hard? Oh, ok, then level requirements it is...

Repeating Feats? Seriously, there was only ONE before, so unless you plan to have several, this is pointless. Just make each feat only selectable once.

- Alert. Good nerf but you went too far. Unless you are just planning to downgrade the general power level of feats (which I am all for otherwise!).

- Healer. Right, let's nerf the best non-magical healing--oh, wait, the only non-magical healing--in the game. Guess they want everyone to use ye ol' healin' magic. Bring back the healing wands and heal-bot PCs!

- Lucky. Let's make one of the strongest feats in the game EVEN BETTER.

- Magic Initiate. Sure, why not make THIS ONE repeatable. Can't have enough magic in a magical game, huh? Oh, and let's make it so players can swap out those spell choices. Heaven forbid someone actually as to live with a choice they made...

- Savage Attacker. Lame before and they made it even MORE lame. I didn't think it was possible, but they did it. At least before you could benefit on it from any weapon attack (even if you didn't take the Attack action) and you could use it on other creatures turns if you got an OA or something. It works out to less than a +1 to damage once per round. yeah... yawns

- Skilled. Ok, so you can repeat Skilled, but you can't repeat Crafter or Musician? I guess those additional tools or instruments are just too hard to learn.

- Tavern Brawler. Take a decent feat and make it worse. The damage reroll will happen enough to make it annoying, and the benefit is only 0.375 extra damage. Why bother? Honestly? Oh, and you don't have to use that Bonus Action now, but you also can't grapple, just a little shove. I suppose if they are next to the pit or cliff that could increase your damage a lot. Furniture as Weapon? Oi... at least proficiency in improvised weapons gave you a lot more options.

D20 Test? (Failed!)
Seriously, most players already thought a 1 always fails and a 20 always succeeds on ablity checks and saves. Glad you guys finally caught up.

Critical Hits
No more critical spells and no critical unarmed strikes for 2 damage instead of 1. I guess they found a way to nerf casters and I'm glad they cleared up that extra damage issue on unarmed strikes. That extra point of damage killed more PCs...

Grappled
Great, I am sure all the players will love having their targets get free chances to escape and not have to use their Action for that anymore.

Inspiration
So, something few groups remembered, let alone used, is now "automatic" each day. Just keep upping that power level, WotC... drip, drip, drip...

SPELL LISTS
Took you long enough....

//// END RANT ////

I finally found the words, and they weren't enough.
I'm not seeing very much "new" in this "new playtest." Certainly not enough to get myself worked up over. Most of the stuff they brought out for races has already been done--and done better--by Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. But in the spirit of the OP's post, here is my response. (Sorry it's not completely [-], as requested, but it's certainly not all [+].)

Children of Different Humanoid Kinds: We are already doing this at my table. Well, sort of: we use the optional character options in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything to create or customize any of the race options in the game. You want to play a humanoid squirrel-person? A half-medusa? A half-elf with a dwarven mother? TCoE page 10.

Size has no bearing: This isn't really a "One D&D" thing; this has always been a 5th Edition thing as far as I can tell.

Ardlings: Tasha's Cauldron of Everything makes this unnecessary.

Small dragonborn, dwarves, elves; medium halflings: Again, we already have Tasha's. This is a weird argument too, considering the whole "size has no bearing" argument above. If size ever matters, and if it ever matters so much that I need stats for a Small Dragonborn, TCoE has the rules I need to create it.

Half-races: Tasha's. Build the one you want, the way you want.

Tieflings: If you don't like the way any race is presented (like the cold damage vs. necrotic)...yep, TCoE.

Moving ASIs to Background: We use the optional rules in TCoE, that allows the player to assign racial ASIs to any ability score they wish. Kind of makes this obsolete.

Feats at 1st Level: I think it makes perfect sense to tie them to Background--but you can probably guess what I'm about to say:

Tasha's Cauldron of Everything already has rules for feats at 1st level, for any character race that you want.

Specific changes to specific feats: My players don't use Alert, Healer, Skilled, or Tavern Brawler. And I house-ruled long ago that Magic Initiate, Skilled, Resilient, Ritual Caster, etc. were repeatable, but in 8 years of regular play in three different gaming groups, this issue has never come up.

Most players like the Lucky feat, but they never remember to use it. So for us, that one is a tempest in a teapot.

Critical Hits: Yuck. I won't be changing this. Critical hits/failures add a layer of chaos and swing that we've grown to appreciate at the table. We're not giving that up just to make combat more predictable.

Inspiration: My players award inspiration to each other at my table, per the optional rule in the DMG. I plan to keep it that way. I have enough on my plate already...
 

Micah Sweet

Legend
Seems unlikely how they stressed it was a playtest in the video and how the Next playtest went (and people had the same fears you share here back then too).

Now, I think people are mistaken if they think everything is on the table for revisions. If that is what you think they are suggesting with this playtest, then yes it could feel like a sham. This is a playtest for a very narrow set of options/revisions/tweaks. They still very much want this to be 5e and a lot is simply not on the table for discussion. But what is up for discussion, I believe the honestly want peoples thoughts and opinions.
If they were clear about what was and was not on the table for potential customer input, I would likely feel differently. But they aren't clear, so I have no reason to trust their marketing rhetoric.
 

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