One paragon path to rule them all

[MrBeens]

Revamped the whole thing, this is take 2.

[sblock=Destiny Master]
Destiny Master
"May destiny guide your way."
Prerequisite: You must be a PC in Mengu's game (you must be a Destiny Warrior).

DESTINY MASTER PATH FEATURES
Destined Courage (11th level): When you spend an action point, you or a Destiny Master adjacent to you gains temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value.
Destiny Warrior Training (11th level): You gain one of the following depending on your class role. If you have multiple roles, choose one at the time you select this paragon path. Also choose a power source from one of your classes as the power source for your Destiny Master paragon path powers.

Controller: Once per turn when you hit a creature adjacent to another Destiny Master, you may slide the target 1 square.
Defender: Creatures you mark suffer a -5 penalty to damage rolls against Destiny Masters when they make an attack that does not include you.
Leader: Once per turn when you use a healing power on a Destiny Master, another Destiny Master within 5 squares of the target regains 10 hit points. Increase the hit points regained to 15 at 21st level.
Striker: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and +2 bonus to damage rolls against creatures adjacent to another Destiny Master. Increase bonus damage to +4 at 21st level.
​

Bonds of the Destiny Master (16th level): When you attack a creature adjacent to another Destiny Master, you gain a +4 bonus to damage rolls.
Signature Maneuver (20th level): Choose a daily attack power you know from your class. You may use this power an additional time each day. Every time you gain a new daily attack power from your class, you may replace the chosen power.

Might of Destiny Destiny Master Attack 11
You masterfully manipulate destiny because I'm terrible at making up power fluff.
Encounter * Varies
Standard Action * Varies
Effect: Choose one of the following.
* You make a basic attack.
* A Destiny Master adjacent to you makes a basic attack.
* You regain a class encounter attack power you have spent during this encounter.

Force of Destiny Destiny Master Utility 12
You use destiny to give yourself or an ally a physical edge.
Encounter * Varies
Free Action * Close burst 5
Target: You or one ally in the burst
Effect: The target gains a +5 power bonus to their next strength, dexterity, or constitution based skill check or ability check before the end of your next turn, excluding initiative checks.
[/sblock]

So I took the idea from Bonds of the Destiny Master, and ran with it, basing most bonuses to proximity of a Destiny Master. In some cases this wasn't yielding very usable results, so I expanded the range of some of the bonuses. I'm not too worried about the controller feature, since I don't have any controllers in the party at the moment, though it's holding a place in case someone dies and decides to bring in a controller. I briefly pondered the idea of turning until end of next turn to save ends, but my players hate save ends powers, they much prefer until end of next turn conditions, so it would be a downgrade as far as they are concerned. Slide is always useful.

The leader in my game already has mark of healing, so saves are possible that way, no need for a PP feature to do the same. I think extra healing to another target should work quite well. Originally I had the extra healing apply to an adjacent target, but that might be too hard to make use of, so I changed it to target within 5.

I think the PP might still be just shy of competing with top dogs like Stormwarden, Kensei, Pit Fighter, Shock Trooper, Son of Mercy, Dreadnought, Hospitaler, Warchanter, Morninglord, Battle Captain, etc. But I feel the potency will be just below that tier, on par with or better than Adroit Explorer, Turathi Highborn, Questing Knight, Academy Master, Battlefield Archer, etc. which is what I'm aiming for.

I realize the PP doesn't currently allow for certain customization/specialization options like Seldarine Dedicate, Polearm Master, Disciple of the World Serpent, etc. But if it seems my players want it, I could for instance trade the Destiny Warrior Training feature with the feature they want. If my shaman wants difficult terrain around his spirit companion (with World Serpent), he can ditch the leader feature from the PP, and have the difficult terrain instead. I'll keep the door open for customization. I wanted some uniformity in the PP because I don't feel like contending with rotting tomatoes and caviar at the same table.

Version 2 overall looks a lot more balanced, but I think the fact that everyone in the party will have this thing makes it less good. If it was optional and a couple of people took it then it would be fine. 90% of the time their Destiny Warrior Training is going to be functioning.
A couple of extra points:

Might of Destiny is a bit dull, most people are going to choose to regain the encounter and if they don't they get to make a basic attack, which everyone can do as an at will.

The utility power is very weak - a daily to give +5 to a skill check, but it only works on less than half the skills? At minimum it should be an encounter, but with everyone in the party having the same power this will also be too powerful

 

[Mengu]

Version 2 overall looks a lot more balanced, but I think the fact that everyone in the party will have this thing makes it less good. If it was optional and a couple of people took it then it would be fine. 90% of the time their Destiny Warrior Training is going to be functioning.
A couple of extra points:

I think I'm fine with it functioning 90% of the time. Currently actually my biggest issue is the action point feature. I'm not entirely happy everyone will have access to the same thing, but I do like the feature for defenders and leaders.

Might of Destiny is a bit dull, most people are going to choose to regain the encounter and if they don't they get to make a basic attack, which everyone can do as an at will.

Oops, it's supposed to be a minor action, while formatting, I must have made a copy paste error. Fixed it.

The utility power is very weak - a daily to give +5 to a skill check, but it only works on less than half the skills? At minimum it should be an encounter, but with everyone in the party having the same power this will also be too powerful

The utility power is an encounter power. It is also a free action. I think it's quite strong as far as skill bonus granting utilities go, perhaps too strong. But I kind of like the idea of the entire party going stealth when they need to, running across rugged terrain without tiring for hours, and bounding across a river rock to rock, one after another. And also with the +5 bonus only to less than half the skills, skill challenges won't be trivialized. I thought about making it like the runepriest utility, +2 to trained skill or +5 to untrained skill. But not sure how well that will go over, since a lot of people wrinkle their nose at powers like the sorcerer utility that gives +2 to next skill.

 

[the Jester]

Have you asked your players what they think of the idea of all being shoehorned into one paragon path?

 

[Mengu]

Have you asked your players what they think of the idea of all being shoehorned into one paragon path?

As I said I will bring this to the table, already discussed with one player. If they don't like it, fine, I'll scrap it, they can pick what they want, and run around with some crappy and some super awesome PP's in the group. If they all like the option, they'll have it. If some want personal customization to it, like a different action point feature, I'm up for that. If some want this, some want other existing options, I'll weigh the circumstances, and come up with a solution that'll make me and the player happy. If 5 out of 6 players like the PP, and 1 wants something else entirely, I would probably be willing to do that too.

I'm just trying to create a tool for discussion, and won't implement a solution that all 6 of my players aren't happy with.

 

[the Jester]

As I said I will bring this to the table, already discussed with one player. If they don't like it, fine, I'll scrap it, they can pick what they want, and run around with some crappy and some super awesome PP's in the group. If they all like the option, they'll have it. If some want personal customization to it, like a different action point feature, I'm up for that. If some want this, some want other existing options, I'll weigh the circumstances, and come up with a solution that'll make me and the player happy. If 5 out of 6 players like the PP, and 1 wants something else entirely, I would probably be willing to do that too.

I'm just trying to create a tool for discussion, and won't implement a solution that all 6 of my players aren't happy with.

Cool, I hope your effort pays off and at least some of the players take it. I find it very satisfying to see my homebrewing in play.

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

Why not just re-fluff the other paragon paths? After all, not all Jedi focused on the same powers, although they all had something in common. You could confer them all a boon to give them a common bond to each other (via the Force or whatever).

I think taking away PPs is a bad idea, but work with each character to pick and choose some items from different PPs, and tailor them to fit your game. While you're homebrewing, bring in the players into it! And say if you can't both agree on the specifics or the mechanics, the fall back is a default PP.

One thing I'd like to mention, is that complex mechanics for your e.g. striker option, are hard to track and needlessly make the game more complex. Static bonuses might be more boring, but at least they are useful and won't be forgotten or lost in the shuffle. I can't remember how many adventuring days went by when I didn't use Bless Weapon daily because I was never sure if this would be a worthwhile time to use it.

+1 on not shoehorning everyone into the same thing, but reflavoring the existing PPs and customizing them into your campaign. If I had played with DMs who allowed homebrew stuff and / or fixing broken PPs such as Scion of Arkosia, I would not now be DMing instead of playing 4e. It's always a game of give and take, and while the DM sets the tone, you have to respect players wishes to some extent or they might grumble (or even leave).

 

[knightofround]

Why you can't simply re-fluff the other PPs to go along with your "Destiny Warrior" theme? From your OP, it sounds like you're trying to fix min/maxers lack of choice when choosing a PP by...not giving them any choice at all. Seems counter-intuitive to me. Min/maxers enjoy min/maxing, you can't stop them, let them have their fun. If you're worried about min/maxers overshadowing non min/maxers well there's many better ways to go about that before reducing PC choices.

If you're dead set on this DM-created-PPs-only thing, then why not take the extra step to build a unique PP for each PC? That way each PC will be able to feel unique. The varying class features depending upon combat role is clunky and its going to be better for some classes than others.

For example, the "might of destiny" feature is going to be fantastic for psionic classes, because every power is an at-will. But it's going to be meh for everyone else at higher levels because they're going to be using encounter and daily powers much more frequently.

The "bonds of destiny" feature is meh because melee classes depend upon other melee classes to be adjacent in order for it to work, and ranged classes are depending upon melee classes to be adjacent in order for it to work. In other words, it's much better for melee classes than ranged classes. Also, untyped damage bonuses are tricky because they exponentially increase in power with AOE attacks.

The "destiny of warrior" feature is questionable because Leaders gain a benefit that lasts an entire encounter, while defenders and strikers only gain a benefit in the first round. And the controller option restricts players to using encounter powers, which is puzzling.

If you're trying to make a one-size-fits-all balanced&bland PP, then try to think up features that everyone can benefit from equally irregardless of class. Stuff like rerolling an attack roll, choosing an extra encounter/daily/utility from class list, regaining a power, bonus to a saving throw, extra benefits with second wind...etc.

 

[Mengu]

The objective was to put everyone on even footing, instead of have a gimp sorcerer and a superhero ranger. My players aren't optimizers, and the options straight out of the book can give some people too much power, while others get too little power (increasing gaps that already exist between non-optimized builds). I was simply trying to equalize the playing field for my players. I could simply say we're not using paragon paths, since they are optional, but I feel paragon PC's need the mechanical boost against paragon monsters.

The PP went through a final revision. No mechanical changes, just some wording changes, the bonuses now apply if you are adjacent to a destiny warrior, and all PC's are destiny warriors. This was to make sure if someone wanted to pick a different PP, the bonuses still worked as intended. In its current incarnation, it's likely better than 95% of paragon paths out there for just about every class. I did not force anyone to take the PP. I gave the players the option to pick another PP, or this one. Everybody picked this one. So far, everyone seems happy.