One spell, 135d6 damage?

[Kangaxx]

Here's a question that has come up recently for me in both my tabletop game and a pbp: Take a rogue 5/ wizard 5/ arcane trickster 10. He casts Scorching Ray on a flat-footed opponent. Does he apply his +8d6 sneak attack damage to all 3 rays? The question really becomes interesting when you switch out Scorching Ray with a spell such as Acid Orb from Tome and Blood, which allows 15 individual attacks for 1d6 damage each. (Hence the title.)

Obviously this is unbalanced, but it'd be nice to have a reason in the rules as to why it didn't work. The most common answer I get is a comparison to Manyshot, which specifically states that sneak attack only applies to one arrow. But in the feat it's listed as a special case, not an overarching rule.

Also, are point blank shot and/or weapon specialization considered precision damage? I don't see it specified anywhere.

 

[Enkhidu]

Here's a question that has come up recently for me in both my tabletop game and a pbp: Take a rogue 5/ wizard 5/ arcane trickster 10. He casts Scorching Ray on a flat-footed opponent. Does he apply his +8d6 sneak attack damage to all 3 rays? The question really becomes interesting when you switch out Scorching Ray with a spell such as Acid Orb from Tome and Blood, which allows 15 individual attacks for 1d6 damage each. (Hence the title.)

Obviously this is unbalanced, but it'd be nice to have a reason in the rules as to why it didn't work. The most common answer I get is a comparison to Manyshot, which specifically states that sneak attack only applies to one arrow. But in the feat it's listed as a special case, not an overarching rule.

Also, are point blank shot and/or weapon specialization considered precision damage? I don't see it specified anywhere.

Its pretty much an overarching rule - it's applied in exactly the same way on shuriken. WS and PBS, however, as they do apply on the individual missiles, will apply on the individual spell rays/orbs.

 

[XO]

Sneaky

Should the DM allow Sneak Attack with spells (an option, but certainly not compulsory), the multiple attacks would be resolved separately and ONLY the 1st one would be a sneak attack possibility (provided it hit).

"Thar goes the unbalanz"

 

[DaveMage]

I would certainly rule that you get to add sneak attack damage once per attack or once per spell, not per spell part (such as the 3 scorching rays (parts) in your example).

Since I do not have the books in front of me, though, I can't cite a rule for you.

 

[irdeggman]

Is there an individual attack roll for each ray? Or is it like many shot - one attack roll with multiple missiles? There is a difference. IMO I would generally go with adding sneak attack damage once to each attack roll.

 

[Kangaxx]

Its pretty much an overarching rule - it's applied in exactly the same way on shuriken. WS and PBS, however, as they do apply on the individual missiles, will apply on the individual spell rays/orbs.

Shurikens no longer work like that, and even in 3.0 I believe they were discussed as a special case, not as falling under a broader rule, much like manyshot.

Should the DM allow Sneak Attack with spells (an option, but certainly not compulsory), the multiple attacks would be resolved separately and ONLY the 1st one would be a sneak attack possibility (provided it hit).

Sneak attack says that it works with any attack, not just with weapons. Tome and Blood clarifies (in chapter 5) that any spell which requires an attack roll can have sneak attack damage applied.

As I said before, I understand that this is absurd and any sane DM would house rule it. I was just looking for something that's actually in the rules that prevented it from working.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Multiple Sneaks...

The overarching rule is that you can only apply precision based damage, such as Sneak Attack, to the first of a multiple attack. Each iteritive attack from your BAB progression is considered a single attack. As casting a spell is *not* the full attack option, you do not get iteritive attacks. Unless the spell allows you to discharge a damaging component as an attack action on following turns, only the first hit will be eligible for the additional Sneak Attack dice.

Additionally,
Scorching Ray states "..and fired simultaneously." As such only 1 ray can have the Sneak Attack damage applied.

Acid Orb, I don't have access to.. my bet is that the spell description will lay this answer to rest.

As to what specifically is 'Precision based damage'... I really don't know beyond the Sneak Attack... gotta love the in depth glossary of game terms!

anywho, lunch break is over, back to class I go...

 

[dcollins]

The D&D designers have developed a rule about "precision damage" wherein only the first attack in a one-action volley of shots (multiple missiles, magic orbs, acid arrows, etc.) can apply sneak attack damage or things similar to it. They came up with this after the 3.0 books came out and put in the FAQ.

Frankly I'm having some trouble finding exact references on the overall rule. Perhaps it's in Tome & Blood or maybe the 3.5 core books? In the 3.0 FAQ they dealt with this on "shurikens", in the 3.5 FAQ the same thing for the "Multishot" feat. It's fairly well established, however.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Here's what they have in Complete Arcane p.86, Sneak Attacks:

"Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells (including sneak attack damage), the extra damage applies only to the first attack, whether that attack hits or not."

 

[Kangaxx]

Before posting here, I made a reasonably extensive search of the 3.5 core books and Tome and Blood, and couldn't find anything addressing the situation. It's similarly absent from the most recent FAQ. It's funny that everyone seems to be familiar with a rule that (as best I can tell) never saw print before this month. I'm glad to know they finally addressed it in the Complete Arcane. Thanks for your input everyone.