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D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Agreed it's not forced.

But fans act like it is.

Thus "magical items are option but I'm not going to provide you with variant rewards to replace them"


"5e includes gold but it's mostly useless because we won't provide you with items and service cost above tier 1 to buy."
Sometimes people are bad actors. I don't see why that truth should stop anyone.

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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Most OSR games lean too much into the "keep it simple", "zero-to-hero" concept for what I'm looking for. I want starting characters to be distinct and competent, with a good amount of mechanical differentiation.
There are OSR games that do that. Rules-light is a stereotype for the OSR, not a straitjacket.

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
You said:

Magic let's you do things not-magic doesn't.

No one ever says:

Not-Magic let's you do things magic doesn't.

But they should.
Sure. Let's hear some suggestions and we'll nail this down afterwards with some ideas for mechanics.

Complaining about it doesn't actually accomplish anything.


"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
There are OSR games that do that. Rules-light is a stereotype for the OSR, not a straitjacket.
I'm always open to suggestions. Shadowdark, ACKS II, Worlds without Number, Beyond the Wall, and Knave all have elements I like, but don't quite get there.

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Another problem that 5e has that I should have mentioned is allowing magical classes the ability to poach the things the non-magical characters have as well. If you're a full caster, you have no business having access to Extra Attack. I know people love Gishes (as do I) but it's silly to be like "so my Bladesinger can mix it up in melee with super high AC if I want, but I can't do that, I'm still a Wizard". You should build a whole class around this concept, not slap it onto a Wizard (or Bard)*. I guess it's ok for a class like Warlock or Sorcerer, who have harsher limits on their spell use, but I think it's telling when comparing Eldritch Knight to Bladesinger. It's like, wait, so I can fight good and have 1/3 casting from a somewhat limited pool of spells or I can fight reasonably good some of the time on my guy with full casting and all the best spells?

*I guess since they're sort of built to occasionally hit stuff, Clerics might be ok with Extra Attack, but thanks to how the War Domain functions, there's apparently no budget for it in Cleric subclasses. Or maybe it would make War redundant, I dunno.


It's not forced, rather it's part of the emergent narrative. If the emergent narrative allows for such rewards, you can get them. No one says it's guaranteed.
I often wonder what a D&D campaign would look like if it lacked any obligation for the DM to provide rewards like that. Call it the A-Team game: the PCs adventure for whatever cause they Believe in, but they never get a substantial reward. No magic items that aren't macguffins, no titles, no money except just enough to pay for a night's rest and some new arrows. Every session starts out just scraping by.

I wonder how long interest would last?

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