D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Chaosmancer]

After careful* consideration, my fixes for the Sorcerer would be thus:

1) Change them from being CHA-based to CON-based.
2) Change their Vancian casting to the Spell Points in the DMG.
3) Get rid of Sorcery Points and have Metamagic deplete Hit Points instead.
3.5) maybe up their hit die to a d8.

*I'm only half reading the threads while watching the Red Sox pregame show.

I'd rather increase the spell points by the Sorcery points. Losing HP to use your abilities is a MASSIVE penalty,

 

[Remathilis]

Disagree. It is better to have fewer strong classes than a legion of lacklustre ones.

But you don't get stronger classes, you get generic classes that lack cohesion because they are trying to be 5-6 classes. You get a fighter class that has to balance being a knight, barbarian, monk and ranger while remaining balanced and flavorful. You get a magic user who must support illusionist, necromancer, sorcerer, bard , witch, warlock, and psionic. You lose the fine-tuning ability of being a separate class and instead opt for a "build your own class" from a list of options and hope that the options are reasonably balanced.

Unless, of course, you are implying certain archetypes (like, for example, warlord or Psion) should not exist at all or have zero mechanical support. Like, "sorry Bob, I know your story is that you made a pact with an archfey, but that still means you're a cleric just like anyone who worships a deity"

 

[Shadowedeyes]

It's a balancing act for sure. Too many classes take up too much page space, and most will probably be ignored because they end up catering to specific, very niche concepts. Too few and what's left is very broad, generic classes that need to balance a lot of options.

Admittedly I could live without the Psion existing though. I know, I know, some people are big fans of it and I don't necessarily want to get rid of their joy or anything, but that is a class that has usually been a mess mechanically.

 

[Vaalingrade]

After careful* consideration, my fixes for the Sorcerer would be thus:

1) Change them from being CHA-based to CON-based.
2) Change their Vancian casting to the Spell Points in the DMG.
3) Get rid of Sorcery Points and have Metamagic deplete Hit Points instead.
3.5) maybe up their hit die to a d8.

*I'm only half reading the threads while watching the Red Sox pregame show.

Wouldn't it be easier to just kill them in character creation?

Everyone wants to come up with a cast from HP system, but no one is willing to accept that it's pretty much always just a pretty death spiral.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

My group tried some homebrew HP casters back in 3e/3.5 and it never ended well. Either too much of a death spiral, or the cost was so minimal it was incredibly overpowered.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Except they got their being born with magic taken away from them.

Now it's akin to having grown up next to a toxic waste dump.

need high con to survive that, plus it makes it the only one stat caster

I'd rather increase the spell points by the Sorcery points. Losing HP to use your abilities is a MASSIVE penalty,

I would like it as a backup, the you're out of SP but not out of options or so you can pull a noble sacrifice but that might just be me

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Um... no? Did you not read the entire sentence?

"sorcerers with this origin trace their descent back to a mighty sorcerer of ancient times who made a bargain with a dragon"

Your sorcerer did not make a bargain with a dragon, your ANCESTOR who was ALREADY A SORCERER made a bargain, and your magic shifted to be draconic magic. That is very different from a pact that you yourself signed.

Did you not read the last sentence:

"Any given sorcerer could be the first of a new bloodline, as a result of a pact or some other exceptional circumstance."

That's a warlock. Also that ancestor you spoke of also an warlock. It makes no sense that children of that originator would be of completely different class with different sort of magic.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Did you not read the last sentence:

"Any given sorcerer could be the first of a new bloodline, as a result of a pact or some other exceptional circumstance."

That's a warlock. Also that ancestor you spoke of also an warlock. It makes no sense that children of that originator would be of completely different class with different sort of magic.

i think that personally, the difference between a sorcerer and a warlock, (or what it should be), is regardless of the finer details of how they or their bloodline aquired their magic initially, is that a sorcerer is fundamentally innately changed by their magic whereas a warlock merely possesses magic as a tool they can separate from themselves, a divine soul sorcerer possesses the blood of angels and is their own source of divine magic , the celestial warlock merely channels divine magic from another source.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

i think that personally, the difference between a sorcerer and a warlock, (or what it should be), is regardless of the finer details of how they or their bloodline aquired their magic initially, is that a sorcerer is fundamentally innately changed by their magic whereas a warlock merely possesses magic as a tool they can separate from themselves, a divine soul sorcerer possesses the blood of angels and is their own source of divine magic , the celestial warlock merely channels divine magic from another source.

That indeed is one interpretation that clearly differentiates them. (And would also answer to the question can the patron turn off the powers of the warlock.) But the issue with that is that it makes a warlock a type of a cleric.

 

[Stormonu]

If they had just gone with the first and third paragraph it would be pretty straightforward:

View attachment 356309
View attachment 356310

but they included that second paragraph (especially the second half of it, starting with "The touch of a demon . . . ") that kind of makes it confusing (at least for my simple brain). As others have said, it sounds half Warlock and half Cleric:

View attachment 356311

I feel like that middle paragraph is filler just to take up space in the Class Description. If they had just left it out and put in another piece of artwork or something, it would have been much less convoluted.

I feel like they didn't want to force players to be a sorcerer by being a "half-" whatever and the intent was to give options where the touch of something supernatural may have altered the character in some way so it is innate. The wording, unfortunately is muddled.

"Not every sorcerer comes from a lineage with some sort of supernatural parent or ancestor. Often, all that is required is an encounter with a supernatural being or event where arcane magic coalesces with the soul of the sorcerer, allowing them to innately tap into a well-spring of inner magic. Perhaps the touch of fiendish interference, the blessing of a dryad that ties a newborn to the feywild or a genie opening the child's eyes to a channel to the elemental forces ignites such a spark, as can a drink from a mysterious fountain in the sorcerer's youth, an accidental (and momentary) trip to a highly magical outer plane or a brush with deitific forces that rubs off a glimmer of the power's portfolio into the essence of the sorcerer. These and many more events or encounters can allow the sorcerer to intrinsically tap into forces that allow the character to manipulate the forces of magic and reality directly, without need to research the arcane formulas of Wizards or bargain with other beings for their power as the Warlock."