D&D 5E (2024) OneD&D Multiverse Cosmology
- Thread starter Yaarel
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Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
The 5e Spelljammer Adventures in Space depicts the Astral Plane as an "Astral Sea" populated by Dominions, Wildspaces, and various curiosities.
The description of a "Dominion" is brief.
From 4e tradition, I understand the 5e Dominion to mean the same thing as a 3e Outer Plane, also known as the Alignment Planes or the Wheel. There are sixteen Alignment Planes, such as Chaotic Good Arborea and Neutral Good with Chaotic Tendency Beastlands, in addition to the Neutral Plane. Every one of these sixteen Alignment Planes exists as a Dominion floating somewhere in the Astral Sea.
When approaching a Dominion from the Astral Sea, it appears as some wondrous island or floating city, sometimes as large as a planet or as small as a house.
However, these Astral Dominions are regions of thought. They lack the spaciality and distances of the Material Plane. Thus, the amount of apparent space inside a Dominion can be larger than the apparent size outside. The inside of a Dominion can be infinitely large.
The amount of space that is available inside a dream, is the same as the amount of space that is available inside an Astral Dominion.
In addition to these sixteen Alignment Dominions, there can also be many other kinds of Dominions floating somewhere in the Astral Sea.
The description of a "Dominion" is brief.
From 4e tradition, I understand the 5e Dominion to mean the same thing as a 3e Outer Plane, also known as the Alignment Planes or the Wheel. There are sixteen Alignment Planes, such as Chaotic Good Arborea and Neutral Good with Chaotic Tendency Beastlands, in addition to the Neutral Plane. Every one of these sixteen Alignment Planes exists as a Dominion floating somewhere in the Astral Sea.
When approaching a Dominion from the Astral Sea, it appears as some wondrous island or floating city, sometimes as large as a planet or as small as a house.
However, these Astral Dominions are regions of thought. They lack the spaciality and distances of the Material Plane. Thus, the amount of apparent space inside a Dominion can be larger than the apparent size outside. The inside of a Dominion can be infinitely large.
The amount of space that is available inside a dream, is the same as the amount of space that is available inside an Astral Dominion.
In addition to these sixteen Alignment Dominions, there can also be many other kinds of Dominions floating somewhere in the Astral Sea.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
The Alignment system see endless debate. The Alignment system is an ethical system: group versus individual. Both are legitimate.
Conflictively, some traditions conflate the ethics with math: predictable versus random. This conflation leads to confusion, uncertainty of meaning, and much of the Alignment debates.
In the process of creating the multiverse, the Alignments do have a role. But it is more like:
Lawful = waves
Chaotic = particles
Both are in play in creation.
Lawful is the constellations.
Chaotic is the stars.
Lawful is the forest.
Chaotic is the trees.
Conflictively, some traditions conflate the ethics with math: predictable versus random. This conflation leads to confusion, uncertainty of meaning, and much of the Alignment debates.
In the process of creating the multiverse, the Alignments do have a role. But it is more like:
Lawful = waves
Chaotic = particles
Both are in play in creation.
Lawful is the constellations.
Chaotic is the stars.
Lawful is the forest.
Chaotic is the trees.
Clint_L
Legend
With regards to characters, I doubt the updated PHB will address alignment much differently than the current version, except for to emphasize that it is optional. I suspect the brief part about "Alignment in the Multiverse" will be cut completely or made an optional rule. It seems like something that is better served in setting book than the base game. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the few spells that rely on alignment reworked.
But I'm also biased because I detest the alignment system and always have. I also don't think the D&D alignment system has much to do with any coherent ethical system.
But I'm also biased because I detest the alignment system and always have. I also don't think the D&D alignment system has much to do with any coherent ethical system.
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Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
This conforms well to the concept of astral planets expressed by Paramahansa Yogananda in his Autobiography of a Yogi and in many other spiritual traditions, also called "spirit worlds".
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
5e has the best presentation of the Alignment system, relative to all of the editions before it.
OneD&D wont look much different from 5e.
The only cautions are:
Aggressively remove any Chaotic=random. This "Chaotic Stupid" randomness causes bad behavior of many reallife players, who use it as pretext for jackassery toward other reallife players. Randomosity isnt part of an ethical system anyway. Chaotic is about prioritizing individuals over groups.
In the expression, a "personal code of conduct", the word "personal" is doing the heavy lifting. A character with a personal, individualistic, value system that is at odds with the expectations of other groups, has the Chaotic Alignment.
Yes, to strictly remove any Alignment mechanics solves almost all historical problematics with Alignment.
On my character sheets, Alignment is strictly narrative and is part of the Biography section in the same section as Ideal, Flaw, and Quirk. Alignment relates to all three. There is a field for the two-word Alignment itself, plus an additional field that allows one or two sentences for one specific example of a behavior that the character does frequently to express this Alignment. For example, a particular Chaotic Good character might hate bullies, and normally step in when seeing strangers pick on someone. There are many possibilities for Chaotic Good, or for any other Alignment, but the one example helps flavor the character.
The Alignment system is now a recognizable D&D-ism in popculture. In this era of corporate "monetizing", I expect it impossible for WotC to remove Alignment. The hope is, Alignment in OneD&D will be as nondisruptive as possible.
Yeah, spells like "Protection from Evil/Good" need to rename to "Planar Protection", as the mechanics instead defend against immaterial planar Creature Types.
I sympathize with the frustrations with the alignment system, and the need for many players to easily opt out of it.
Personally, I find the alignment system useful as part of the Ideal, Flaw, and Quirk of the Personality Section.
I also employ it as a coherent ethical system. The terms mean EXACTLY the following:
• Good = altruism (compassion, fairness, especially helping others become able to help even more others)
• Evil = predatorialism (either Lawful merciless judgmentalism or Chaotic letting predators have free reign)
• Lawful = group priority
• Chaotic = individual priority
• Neutral = self-preservation (tending Good respects self-preservation of others, but Evil saves self at expense of others)
It is even a somewhat coherent political compass.
• Good = noncoercion, liberty
• Evil = coercion, tyranny
• Lawful = collectivism (such as socialism)
• Chaotic = individualism (such as capitalism)
In political contexts, one is always referring to shades of gray, since absolutes have never existed historically.
Anyway, I use the Alignment terms in these ways, and in my experience these definitions prove to be robustly self consistent: group versus individual, altruism versus predatorialism
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Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
So this thread isnt about Alignment per se, but does need to sort out how Alignment situates within the Astral Plane, and how these Alignment Dominions in the Astral Sea exert influence within the Material Plane.
I view Lawful versus Chaotic as the building blocks of the multiverse, whence at the level of energy being wave versus particle and at the level of identity being forest versus trees.
I view Lawful versus Chaotic as the building blocks of the multiverse, whence at the level of energy being wave versus particle and at the level of identity being forest versus trees.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
For OneD&D, the following clarifications for the Multiverse Cosmology map.
Essentially, there are five planes. Two "energy planes": Positive and Negative. Plus three what might be called "substantive planes", referring to the substances that the things there are made out of: Material matter, Ethereal spirit, and Astral thought.
Spirit in the sense of the stuff that spirits are made out of is called Ether. Each spirit has a physical force, like gravity, and is virtual body made out of Ether, as if solid, like a Wall of Force, made out of force yet as if solid. Thought in the sense of the stuff that thoughts are made out of is called Aster. Each thought is symbolically meaningful, associating related thoughts, dreamlike, and sublime.
All other planes derive from how these five planes overlap.
The two energy planes are transcendent. It is impossible to enter them. The multiverse results from their influences. To enter the Negative Void would mean to become nothingness, namely to cease to exist. Similarly, to enter the Positive Energy would mean to become infinite without boundaries or limits − in other words, to cease to exist. At first there is only infinite Positive Energy. The nothingness is a something new. The appearance of the Negative Void marks the beginning of the process of the creation of the multiverse, a shift out of infinity into the finite. Where there is nothing, the Energy is not. The infinite can have a limit, a boundary. There can be a finite amount of Energy in one place, and not in an other. There can be two separate places where there is a finite amount of energy. Within the dark empty vacuum of the Negative Void, Positive Energy drips in, forming packets of energy that whirl around forming the building blocks of the existence. All things are made out of Positive Energy: conscious thoughts, physical forces, and activities of matter.
The three substantive planes form three concentric circles. The silvery Ethereal Plane encompasses and overlaps the central Material Plane. The Astral Plane encompasses and overlaps both. Material-Ethereal-Astral are three links in a great chain of being. It shifts from coarse matter to immaterial force to sublime will. The Cosmology Map depicts the border between the Astral Plane and the Ethereal Plane where they interact, and likewise the border between the Ethereal Plane and the Material Plane. Thoughts physicalize into spiritual forces, and these immaterial forces convolute to constitute the Material mass of matter.
Where overlapping, an energy plane alters a substantive plane.
Astral
• Positive Astral Plane = Celestial Plane
• Negative Astral Plane = Fiend Plane
Ether
• Positive Ethereal Plane = Fey Plane
• Negative Ethereal Plane = Shadow Plane
Matter
• Positive Material Plane = Fey Crossing
• Negative Material Plane = Shadow Crossing
For example, it is correct to refer to the Feywild as the Positive Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or specify it as the Fey Plane that is Positive Ether.
MATERIAL PLANE
The Material Plane comprises three realms.
• The World
• The Khaos
• The Elemental Planes
Essentially, there are five planes. Two "energy planes": Positive and Negative. Plus three what might be called "substantive planes", referring to the substances that the things there are made out of: Material matter, Ethereal spirit, and Astral thought.
Spirit in the sense of the stuff that spirits are made out of is called Ether. Each spirit has a physical force, like gravity, and is virtual body made out of Ether, as if solid, like a Wall of Force, made out of force yet as if solid. Thought in the sense of the stuff that thoughts are made out of is called Aster. Each thought is symbolically meaningful, associating related thoughts, dreamlike, and sublime.
All other planes derive from how these five planes overlap.
The two energy planes are transcendent. It is impossible to enter them. The multiverse results from their influences. To enter the Negative Void would mean to become nothingness, namely to cease to exist. Similarly, to enter the Positive Energy would mean to become infinite without boundaries or limits − in other words, to cease to exist. At first there is only infinite Positive Energy. The nothingness is a something new. The appearance of the Negative Void marks the beginning of the process of the creation of the multiverse, a shift out of infinity into the finite. Where there is nothing, the Energy is not. The infinite can have a limit, a boundary. There can be a finite amount of Energy in one place, and not in an other. There can be two separate places where there is a finite amount of energy. Within the dark empty vacuum of the Negative Void, Positive Energy drips in, forming packets of energy that whirl around forming the building blocks of the existence. All things are made out of Positive Energy: conscious thoughts, physical forces, and activities of matter.
The three substantive planes form three concentric circles. The silvery Ethereal Plane encompasses and overlaps the central Material Plane. The Astral Plane encompasses and overlaps both. Material-Ethereal-Astral are three links in a great chain of being. It shifts from coarse matter to immaterial force to sublime will. The Cosmology Map depicts the border between the Astral Plane and the Ethereal Plane where they interact, and likewise the border between the Ethereal Plane and the Material Plane. Thoughts physicalize into spiritual forces, and these immaterial forces convolute to constitute the Material mass of matter.
Where overlapping, an energy plane alters a substantive plane.
Astral
• Positive Astral Plane = Celestial Plane
• Negative Astral Plane = Fiend Plane
Ether
• Positive Ethereal Plane = Fey Plane
• Negative Ethereal Plane = Shadow Plane
Matter
• Positive Material Plane = Fey Crossing
• Negative Material Plane = Shadow Crossing
For example, it is correct to refer to the Feywild as the Positive Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or specify it as the Fey Plane that is Positive Ether.
MATERIAL PLANE
The Material Plane comprises three realms.
• The World
• The Khaos
• The Elemental Planes
WORLD
The Material World − or simply "The" World − is comparable to the reallife universe. It especially connotes the surface of the planet where people and abundant life flourish. Sometimes, each planet is called a world. In the widest sense, the Material World is the universe that is made out of matter. It is the "normal" plane of the D&D multiverse. Where magic isnt in play, players can normally use reallife as reference to estimate how to interact while in the World of the multiverse.
KHAOS
The Khaos − also known as the Elemental Chaos − is a Greek word describing a meaningless infinite emptiness that potentially becomes any kind of matter. Many cultures have this concept, including Norse "ginnunga-gap", and Israel "formless and void": a bewildering wide-openness.
Originally, the entire Material Plane was Khaos. Now the potential matter of Khaos encircles the actual matter of the Material World. Khaos relates to the medieval fear of sailing off the "edge" of a flat World to plunge into the nothingness. Khaos also relates to outer space, beyond a planet. Extreme energy physics and the dark vacuum of the moment before the Big Bang are aspects of the Khaos.
The Khaos is where the Ethereal Plane BECOMES the Material Plane.
The extreme forces of the Ethereal Plane warp and rupture the primordial nothingness of spacetime. Fundamental forces coalesce rapidly into various energies then masses. Ultimately all matter is made out of these Ethereal fundamental forces.
In the multiverse, Khaos is a region of the Material Plane where random forces and energies are in constant flux. Stable forms of raw matter might derive from them, but rarely. The Khaos itself is always roiling.
The variegated damage types of Khaos clash. The Ethereal force damage of gravity pulses, as well as the disintegration that disrupts atomic and molecular bonds of force. The cold of dark empty space. The fire of plasma and heat. The lightning springs across imbalancing charges. Thunder is variously the structurally destabilizing sonic vibrations, the detonating shockwaves, and the extremes of low and high pressures. Radiation deals electromagnetic radiant damage as well as the necrotic of dying cellular metabolism. On rare occasions, radiant might be an unmitigated glimpse of the transcendent Positive Energy, especially in a sense of blissful annihilation, sometimes called the "kiss of death" where the observer dissolves within the infinity. Acid represents fleeting moments of matter appearing caustically then vanishing. By contrast, the psychic damage of minds, the poison of enduring toxins, and the weapons damages of pierce, slash and bludgeon by a stable solid mass are typically absent from the Khaos.
ELEMENTAL PLANES
The Elemental Planes resonate the matter of the Material Plane.
There are four states of matter: solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. Alchemy calls these the Four Elements: Earth, Water, Air, and Fire, respectively. The alchemists count Ether as a Fifth Element. Ether is any force, including the force of gravity. The Fifth Element is physical like the Four are, but is immaterial unlike them.
In the sense that all matter is ultimately made out of fundamental forces, matter itself is made out of Ether. The Four Elements potentially exist in Ether.
The Elemental Planes are demiplanes in the Ethereal Plane. Each Elemental is Material matter having mass. But it is a potential matter that exists within the Ether. The Elemental Planes are part of the Material Plane but locate within the Ethereal Plane. As the Ethereal Plane, the Elemental Planes overlap the Material Plane − both its World and its Khaos. One can enter an Elemental Plane from either the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane.
Each Elemental Plane overlaps the Material Plane and echos its features. Where the Material has a mountain, there is an Elemental mountain, and where a lake a lake. For example. At the border between the demiplane of Fire and the Material Plane, all Elemental features heighten the presence of any Material Fire. The appearance subtly contrasts between gleaming or ashen, and the atmosphere quivers with mirages of a dry heat. As one planeshifts deeper into the Fire Plane, the appearance increasingly distorts. Any Material Fire exaggerates, while any Material Elements that are not Fire diminish or vanish. Midway within the Fire Plane there is only Fire whose shapes are the shapes of the features in the Material Plane hovering in a blazing void. A faint silhouette of Fire is where an earthy mountain is, an empty space is where a lake is. The air rolls luminous winds of Fire. Beyond the midpoint, the planeshift approaches the border of the Deep Ether, where the Material forms of Fire increasingly destabilize and reform into wisps and storms of Fire. In parallel, the Water Plane planeshifts with watery appearances, and likewise Earth and Air with their own styles.
In the Material Plane, locations where an Element dominates, the border between it and the Elemental Plane becomes thin and porous. A region of hot desert wasteland, or volcano, or the sun, teems with Elemental creatures planeshifting back and forth between Material and Elemental.
Note, plasma is a state of matter. In some ways, it is like a gas, and in other ways it is like lightning including electrical and magnetic properties. Yet it forms its own somewhat stable state of matter. The sun is made of plasmic Fire. Sometimes called the "heavenly fire", plasma can exhibit extreme heat, whose brightness ignites incandescent gaseous flames, making the Air red hot or white hot, and even tearing apart the atoms of Air: a Fire that can burn fire. Alternatively, Plasmic Fire can be cool and invisible, sometimes called the "dark fire", such as the plasmosphere that surrounds the planet in a layer between the planet and the orbit of the moon. Both radiant and fire damage types pervade the Fire Plane, and lightning might flash across its voids.
The matter of each Element − Earth, Water, Air, and Fire − can only exist in the Material Plane, including the special Elemental Planes. But the "forms" of an Element can exist in the Ethereal Plane as a virtual Element made out of forces, as if a ghost of an Elemental, and the "concept" of each Element can exist in the Astral, as if an angel of the Elemental.
The Material World − or simply "The" World − is comparable to the reallife universe. It especially connotes the surface of the planet where people and abundant life flourish. Sometimes, each planet is called a world. In the widest sense, the Material World is the universe that is made out of matter. It is the "normal" plane of the D&D multiverse. Where magic isnt in play, players can normally use reallife as reference to estimate how to interact while in the World of the multiverse.
KHAOS
The Khaos − also known as the Elemental Chaos − is a Greek word describing a meaningless infinite emptiness that potentially becomes any kind of matter. Many cultures have this concept, including Norse "ginnunga-gap", and Israel "formless and void": a bewildering wide-openness.
Originally, the entire Material Plane was Khaos. Now the potential matter of Khaos encircles the actual matter of the Material World. Khaos relates to the medieval fear of sailing off the "edge" of a flat World to plunge into the nothingness. Khaos also relates to outer space, beyond a planet. Extreme energy physics and the dark vacuum of the moment before the Big Bang are aspects of the Khaos.
The Khaos is where the Ethereal Plane BECOMES the Material Plane.
The extreme forces of the Ethereal Plane warp and rupture the primordial nothingness of spacetime. Fundamental forces coalesce rapidly into various energies then masses. Ultimately all matter is made out of these Ethereal fundamental forces.
In the multiverse, Khaos is a region of the Material Plane where random forces and energies are in constant flux. Stable forms of raw matter might derive from them, but rarely. The Khaos itself is always roiling.
The variegated damage types of Khaos clash. The Ethereal force damage of gravity pulses, as well as the disintegration that disrupts atomic and molecular bonds of force. The cold of dark empty space. The fire of plasma and heat. The lightning springs across imbalancing charges. Thunder is variously the structurally destabilizing sonic vibrations, the detonating shockwaves, and the extremes of low and high pressures. Radiation deals electromagnetic radiant damage as well as the necrotic of dying cellular metabolism. On rare occasions, radiant might be an unmitigated glimpse of the transcendent Positive Energy, especially in a sense of blissful annihilation, sometimes called the "kiss of death" where the observer dissolves within the infinity. Acid represents fleeting moments of matter appearing caustically then vanishing. By contrast, the psychic damage of minds, the poison of enduring toxins, and the weapons damages of pierce, slash and bludgeon by a stable solid mass are typically absent from the Khaos.
ELEMENTAL PLANES
The Elemental Planes resonate the matter of the Material Plane.
There are four states of matter: solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. Alchemy calls these the Four Elements: Earth, Water, Air, and Fire, respectively. The alchemists count Ether as a Fifth Element. Ether is any force, including the force of gravity. The Fifth Element is physical like the Four are, but is immaterial unlike them.
In the sense that all matter is ultimately made out of fundamental forces, matter itself is made out of Ether. The Four Elements potentially exist in Ether.
The Elemental Planes are demiplanes in the Ethereal Plane. Each Elemental is Material matter having mass. But it is a potential matter that exists within the Ether. The Elemental Planes are part of the Material Plane but locate within the Ethereal Plane. As the Ethereal Plane, the Elemental Planes overlap the Material Plane − both its World and its Khaos. One can enter an Elemental Plane from either the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane.
Each Elemental Plane overlaps the Material Plane and echos its features. Where the Material has a mountain, there is an Elemental mountain, and where a lake a lake. For example. At the border between the demiplane of Fire and the Material Plane, all Elemental features heighten the presence of any Material Fire. The appearance subtly contrasts between gleaming or ashen, and the atmosphere quivers with mirages of a dry heat. As one planeshifts deeper into the Fire Plane, the appearance increasingly distorts. Any Material Fire exaggerates, while any Material Elements that are not Fire diminish or vanish. Midway within the Fire Plane there is only Fire whose shapes are the shapes of the features in the Material Plane hovering in a blazing void. A faint silhouette of Fire is where an earthy mountain is, an empty space is where a lake is. The air rolls luminous winds of Fire. Beyond the midpoint, the planeshift approaches the border of the Deep Ether, where the Material forms of Fire increasingly destabilize and reform into wisps and storms of Fire. In parallel, the Water Plane planeshifts with watery appearances, and likewise Earth and Air with their own styles.
In the Material Plane, locations where an Element dominates, the border between it and the Elemental Plane becomes thin and porous. A region of hot desert wasteland, or volcano, or the sun, teems with Elemental creatures planeshifting back and forth between Material and Elemental.
Note, plasma is a state of matter. In some ways, it is like a gas, and in other ways it is like lightning including electrical and magnetic properties. Yet it forms its own somewhat stable state of matter. The sun is made of plasmic Fire. Sometimes called the "heavenly fire", plasma can exhibit extreme heat, whose brightness ignites incandescent gaseous flames, making the Air red hot or white hot, and even tearing apart the atoms of Air: a Fire that can burn fire. Alternatively, Plasmic Fire can be cool and invisible, sometimes called the "dark fire", such as the plasmosphere that surrounds the planet in a layer between the planet and the orbit of the moon. Both radiant and fire damage types pervade the Fire Plane, and lightning might flash across its voids.
The matter of each Element − Earth, Water, Air, and Fire − can only exist in the Material Plane, including the special Elemental Planes. But the "forms" of an Element can exist in the Ethereal Plane as a virtual Element made out of forces, as if a ghost of an Elemental, and the "concept" of each Element can exist in the Astral, as if an angel of the Elemental.
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