Only the Lonely: Why We Demand Official Product

[Paul Farquhar]

There's also self-employment.

I'm self employed, but if someone engages me to get their child through GCSE Maths I'm not going to decide to teach them Engine Maintenance instead.

 

[Garthanos]

Also don't listen to forums as a game developer. That's how we got 4E.

It gave us 5e explicitly,

 

[Garthanos]

Most players are casual types,

And that means what exactly? The game should be simplistic and be pure random chance driven? without significant choices?

probably don't play high level,

So abandon high level is that the lesson? not saying its not a possibility because if they had pushed epic tier off to its own book after development had finished in earlier tiers the game could be better in any edition.

probably don't play multiple edition

So don't make new editions let's go back to playing 1e. Sorry not interested.

and probably don't care to much about campaign settings.

As a veteran of 1e era I think the campaign setting is something a DM creates not the game designers and 4e left its setting really open ie a perfect match something I could easily adjust.

Sometimes I cannot believe how many ways I disagree with you.

 

[jasper]

.......

Whereas Purple Dragon Knights are just knights. Not unlike Knights of the Hart. And Scarlet Brotherhood monks are just Open Hand monks (ie they are 1st ed PHB monks).

Similarly GH vikings are (just) vikings.

GH doesn't need mechanically distinctive elements because it is (deliberately) out-of-the-box D&D. D&D was written to do Greyhawk, rather than vice versa.

This. Now a rant.
RANT. Why is it a lot of you want to add crunch to every name thing? Purple Paladins of Pittsburgh is piece of lore. They must have this feat, carry an +5 holy potatoe peeler. The Scarlet Brotherhood are named group. They must be this special build. Each and every Scarlet Brotherhood will have the exact build for each level see this 40 page hand out of builds.
How about this? The name group is just a group with a specific goal. Like all you fan people of (insert your favorite) sports team. You all generally wear a uniform (team t-shirt). You all want the team to win. But you all look different and go about your lives until start time on game day.

 

[Fenris-77]

There's also self-employment and people getting together to all create the product they've always dreamed of.

Sure, but there are also people who work for the companies that make the TTRPGs. Working for a company isn't selling out. Not being self employed isn't selling out. People who don't work for WotC can certainly get together and write gaming supplements, that's why we have such a strong 3PP community, but they aren't somehow the pure faith while employees of WotC are sell-outs, that's a ridiculous statement.

 

[jmucchiello]

Selling out, as I understand the term, requires that you have an artistry of a certain style that you then change in order for it to have more mass appeal.

In a niche market, I suppose the definition of mass appeal isn't as "massive" as in, for example, popular music.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Sure, but there are also people who work for the companies that make the TTRPGs. Working for a company isn't selling out. Not being self employed isn't selling out. People who don't work for WotC can certainly get together and write gaming supplements, that's why we have such a string 3PP community, but they aren't somehow the pure faith while employees of WotC are sell-outs, that's a ridiculous statement.

It seems a bit of a Catch 22 has been created.....you're not a professional unless someone pays you for your work, but if you listen to the person that pays you, then you're a sell out.

Riiiight.

 

[Umbran]

It gave us 5e explicitly,

Not quite - 5e was developed based on player feedback, yes. But not explicitly by listening to forum users - they had a separate feedback channel for the playtesting that included a great many people who were not involved in the major discussion forums.

 

[jayoungr]

"People" want this. How many? As compared to how many people pay the game cruising along just fine without new official settings? We don't know.

The thread was made in response to comments on other existing theads, so (as I read it) there was a certain amount of implication that it was meant to refer to people on this board and an unspecified number of others beyond that.

RANT. Why is it a lot of you want to add crunch to every name thing? Purple Paladins of Pittsburgh is piece of lore.

In the specific case of Purple Dragon Knights, we know they were added to SCAG at WotC's direction, even though they're not from the Sword Coast proper. It seems clear that their intention (although it was clearly unsuccessful) was to create an option somewhat like the 4E warlord. (I don't know why they didn't give it more playtesting, though.) So in that case, the crunch was the driving factor and the lore was just an excuse, rather than them looking at the lore and saying "Obviously, this group must have new crunch!"

 

[billd91]

This. Now a rant.
RANT. Why is it a lot of you want to add crunch to every name thing? Purple Paladins of Pittsburgh is piece of lore. They must have this feat, carry an +5 holy potatoe peeler. The Scarlet Brotherhood are named group. They must be this special build. Each and every Scarlet Brotherhood will have the exact build for each level see this 40 page hand out of builds.
How about this? The name group is just a group with a specific goal. Like all you fan people of (insert your favorite) sports team. You all generally wear a uniform (team t-shirt). You all want the team to win. But you all look different and go about your lives until start time on game day.

I hear ya. But as a counter argument - they tried balancing flavor choices with role playing in plenty of 2e kits back in the 1990s. Didn't work out very well. Too many cases of role playing limitations not being actually limiting. Too much table variation in styles of play between RP-heavy and RP-light. Now, people have it put well into their heads that distinctions should be backed by something that's objective and meaningful whether the players are RP-heavy or RP-light.