Only the Lonely: Why We Demand Official Product

[Umbran]

Isn't that a sell out? A professional who takes direction and works on someone else's project?

Actors work with people called directors. They all work on projects that they don't fully own. They outright compete for the chance to do so. Are all actors "sell outs"?

Most professionals (artistic or otherwise) on the planet take direction and work on someone else's project. Because "professional" means "someone who makes a living at something." And making a living generally requires doing a specific thing that has enough value that others will pay enough for it for you to live on.

Maybe you get lucky, and your own personal ideas that you can manage to execute on your own just happen to align with the public, or some small number of very wealthy patrons, such that you are paid for doing whatever you darned well feel like. But that is being lucky.

There's this myth that an artist must be so independent that they risk destitution - but how much art can you make it you cannot feed yourself? That's a self-limiting approach to creativity. Art is communication - all effective communication takes the audience into account. An artist working at the direction of another just has someone else responsible for knowing the audience.

 

[Umbran]

The thread was made in response to comments on other existing theads, so (as I read it) there was a certain amount of implication that it was meant to refer to people on this board and an unspecified number of others beyond that.

Yep. Now, I am just suggesting we consider how many that may be, rather than just assume it.

 

[TwoSix]

This. Now a rant.
RANT. Why is it a lot of you want to add crunch to every name thing? Purple Paladins of Pittsburgh is piece of lore. They must have this feat, carry an +5 holy potatoe peeler. The Scarlet Brotherhood are named group. They must be this special build. Each and every Scarlet Brotherhood will have the exact build for each level see this 40 page hand out of builds.
How about this? The name group is just a group with a specific goal. Like all you fan people of (insert your favorite) sports team. You all generally wear a uniform (team t-shirt). You all want the team to win. But you all look different and go about your lives until start time on game day.

I'm also firmly against creating specific crunch to support a specific setting group; with an exception for if the group has certain special capabilities that don't yet exist within the framework of the game.

 

[3catcircus]

I'm also firmly against creating specific crunch to support a specific setting group; with an exception for if the group has certain special capabilities that don't yet exist within the framework of the game.

Part of the reason for this is so that players want to take some flavor-based crunch instead of the usual x levels of this, y levels of that to get the mechanical benefits with no reason whatsoever for having done so. It's also to allow DMs to build opponents who aren't all the same all the time. It's intended to inspire a desire for more --> more future book sales.

 

[jmucchiello]

I hear ya. But as a counter argument - they tried balancing flavor choices with role playing in plenty of 2e kits back in the 1990s. Didn't work out very well. Too many cases of role playing limitations not being actually limiting. Too much table variation in styles of play between RP-heavy and RP-light. Now, people have it put well into their heads that distinctions should be backed by something that's objective and meaningful whether the players are RP-heavy or RP-light.

For very low values of tried. The 2e kits ranged from useless to required in terms of balance.

 

[Hussar]

/snip

If you like not having the material in quality book form, sure. If I'm running a campaign, I want the physical material, not PDF or internet.

Fair enough I suppose. Seems kinda like shooting yourself in the foot to be that hard nosed about it. There are currently four Oerth Journals for 5e - somewhere in the neighbourhood of 200 pages of setting material for 5e, and more coming out every quarter - written by the biggest Greyhawk geeks you could possibly find.

So, the material you want is already there. It's easy to find. The only thing is, it isn't printed on the skin of a tree. Perhaps, and I'm just suggesting here, a tiny bit of compromise might result in you getting, if not precisely what you want, at least more than nothing and shouting on hilltops for a product that may or may not ever see the light of day.

 

[billd91]

So, the material you want is already there. It's easy to find. The only thing is, it isn't printed on the skin of a tree. Perhaps, and I'm just suggesting here, a tiny bit of compromise might result in you getting, if not precisely what you want, at least more than nothing and shouting on hilltops for a product that may or may not ever see the light of day.

Don't be casting aspersions about people's preferred formats for materials. Not everyone has (or will) make a shift to PDFs and other electronic forms. Sometimes, books are simply easier to sit and read. Plus - maps are way better printed on posters and that's a bit more of a hassle trying to generate one from a PDF. I love my Greyhawk maps by Darlene.

 

[Hussar]

Don't be casting no aspersions about people's preferred formats for materials. Not everyone has (or will) make a shift to PDFs and other electronic forms. Sometimes, books are simply easier to sit and read. Plus - maps are way better printed on posters and that's a bit more of a hassle trying to generate one from a PDF. I love my Greyhawk maps by Darlene.

Oh, I get the desire. Sure. But, given that we haven't had a proper Greyhawk supplement published in, what, twenty years or more, perhaps it might be better to settle for what is available.

And, frankly, given the quality of printers these days, or the proliferation of companies that will print for you on pretty much any surface you would like, I'm not sure I buy that it's that difficult to generate a map from a pdf. I'm looking at my Primeval Thule map on my wall, printed on 8 A3 pages and it certainly does the job. If I wasn't such a cheap bastard, I could get it printed a heck of a lot nicer for like, what, 20 bucks?

 

[Zardnaar]

Oh, I get the desire. Sure. But, given that we haven't had a proper Greyhawk supplement published in, what, twenty years or more, perhaps it might be better to settle for what is available.

And, frankly, given the quality of printers these days, or the proliferation of companies that will print for you on pretty much any surface you would like, I'm not sure I buy that it's that difficult to generate a map from a pdf. I'm looking at my Primeval Thule map on my wall, printed on 8 A3 pages and it certainly does the job. If I wasn't such a cheap bastard, I could get it printed a heck of a lot nicer for like, what, 20 bucks?

I would pay good money for a map folio pack of 5 world's.

 

[Hussar]

I would pay good money for a map folio pack of 5 world's.

5 worlds? Not sure what that means.