OOC: House Millithor in COSQ part 3

[Brother Shatterstone]

Is everyone here from the previous thread? Seonaid knows of the new thread as I sent her a PM about it unfortunately by the time she got it all she could do was drop me a quick note on her status. She sends a frustrated hello to everyone, as she still has no connection but should by the end of the week; she begs and beseeches Endur not to kill her off.

 

[Dalamar]

OOC: Dalamar, Go ahead and update the Torellan character sheet as a Vampire. You lost one level for dying (i.e. you are now level 11) and all of the usual penalties for losing that level (lost one feat, one stat point, etc.)

To my knowledge, you don't lose a level because you die, you lose it due to being brough back with either Raise Dead or Resurrection.

 

[Endur]

True Resurrection (cleric level 9) is the only spell I know of that allows someone to come back to life without level loss.

I agree that some of the create undead spells are rather ambiguous on the question for the obvious reason that they are designed for evil NPCs not PCs. My interpretation is that you lose a level for dying.

Look on the bright side, the Vampire could have drained you of all your levels before drinking your blood.

To my knowledge, you don't lose a level because you die, you lose it due to being brough back with either Raise Dead or Resurrection.

 

[Dalamar]

From the Raise Dead description on p. 268: Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, ... (underlining mine).
And from p. 171, Bringing back the dead: Level loss: the passage from life to death and back again is a wrenching journey for a being's soul. Consequently, any creature brought back to life udually loses one level of experience. (underline again mine)

I take that as 'most effects that bring a creature back to life do so at the cost of losing a level'. But of course, this is your game, so the final call is yours (just trying to read the rules in the most favorable manner for myself, I guess )

 

[Endur]

The problem is that none of the spells or MM descriptions for undead say whether or not you lose a level when you create an undead creature. If coming back to life is an ordeal that costs one level, I would think becoming an undead creature is at least as terrible an ordeal as "raise dead".

Even the Lich description doesn't say whether you lose a level or not to become a Lich. Or if you lose a level after your body is destroyed and the Phylactery brings you back.

Since it doesn't say either way, I'm assuming it costs a level. That's a reasonable interpretation, especially since it is relatively easy to gain XP to replace the lost level. Since in 3.5, there is no prohibition on undead gaining XP.

And the benefits of most undead templates exceed one level, or even two levels. Lich is +4 LA. Vampire is +8 LA.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Lich is +4 LA. Vampire is +8 LA.

Wow, I wouldn't have suspected that a Lich had a lower level adjustment then a vampire, the again I hadn't looked.

That just seems insane, then again I guess a lich would have a ton more levels on average and would be a much more tougher opponent to deal with cause of those levels.

 

[Endur]

The Vampire's LA +8 is because of high stats (+6 str, +4 dex, etc.), 5 bonus feats, fast healing 5, gaseous form, DR, and other special abilities.

The Lich's LA +4 is because of DR, the phylactery, +2 to a caster stat, and minor special abilities.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

True enough but LA are mainly for PC and a Vampire PC is always going to be susceptible to death.

While a Lich PC in crafty hands could almost never be killed, though I guess the same could be said for a very craft vampire pc.

But I do see the reason for the adjustments, plus the Lick template would lose some usefulness if its LA was two high cause then wizards and such would need to gain even more experience to level and what not.

Dalamar, you got awhile to go for before your next level!

 

[Serpenteye]

The Vampire's LA +8 is because of high stats (+6 str, +4 dex, etc.), 5 bonus feats, fast healing 5, gaseous form, DR, and other special abilities.

So Torellan is effectively a 19th level character? Don't you think that LA is a bit too high, especially considering all the vulnerabilities and weaknesses an adventuring vampire PC faces?

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

It's straight from the MM and considering their ungodly DR nope not at all.