OOC Kingdom of Ashes V - Brood city, baby!

[The_Universe]

We want:

(1) The army that the king sent North free of their deal with the Devil.
(2) The service of his armies until Jaine, or a legit. heir, sits on the actual throne.
(3) Cake.
(4) His gradual disarmament?
(5) A promise that, if he crosses the border, he will obey the laws of *our* kingdom or suffer the consequences.
(6) His phylactory (sp?) in our possession in order to ensure that he does not break his promises.

The things you want from him, and the things you want to make sure he doesn't do don't really balance out. It's VERY good to hash out what you want, but make sure that you're being realistic as you deal.

Why, for instance, would he want 1)? Is there a way to make it desirable?

2) Is essentially a reasonable request.

3) It's a little known fact, but Lich's are actually incredibly susceptible to cake. It's like kryptonite.

4) is also unattractive by every metric I can think of. Why would he want to disarm his nation, unless the Phoenix Kingdom is similarly disarmed?

5) is certainly possible, but remember that until Tain is defeated and borders re-settled, what exactly constitutes *your* kingdom will almost certainly be in question.

6) is completely unattractive. If you're going to demand something that important from him, expect him to demand the same (or something of similar value, at least) from you.

Also, remember that you have a finite number of bargaining chips, and that while you might be able to get 2-for-1 for some of them (like the Jaine/AB marriage and/or bringing down the ward) you probably can't get the same for all of them.

But it's a good start!

Just so it's not lost, Jaine's ideas were here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1869060&postcount=488

Keep it coming!

 

[Laurel]

Also, remember that you have a finite number of bargaining chips, and that while you might be able to get 2-for-1 for some of them (like the Jaine/AB marriage and/or bringing down the ward) you probably can't get the same for all of them.

Not to go backward, but we agreed IC that we could offer him his freedom and bring down the ward and later acceptance of him being king of his territories. (very brief synopsis and there where some but/if clauses and such). The one thing that was not agreed upon by anyone including Jaine was to offer her up, nor to offer Aregonn a deal that Jaine and AB would marry and he gets the kids or he gets Jaine or what not.....

 

[Laurel]

Just so it's not lost, Jaine's ideas were here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1869060&postcount=488

1) A force to help relieve/capture Caer Albion.
2) A force to slow the retrieval of the blades on the Isle of Mourning, or retrieve the Blades themselves.
3) Reinforcements/equipment for the force protecting Hyrwl and New Oceanus
4) At least one other expeditionary force, to be used for other important targets that may arise.
These tasks might include...
---Retaking Oceanus
---Capturing important places like Caer Melyn
---Reacting to other Draconid invasions
---Others?
5) She also wants a naval force of some sort, but the Bluestar is unlikely to be able to provide one. For that, she may have to turn to mercenaries, privateering, or some combination thereof.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Unattractive as some of those things may be, if he wants his freedom, he's going to have to be willing to give us something that he doesn't want to give in order to make it possible.

If he doesn't not agree to give us his phylactory, I think it is reasonable for us to know where it is... possibly placing it on neutral ground as a back-up... we need reassurance that he is going to keep his promises. My list was ideal... I know we won't get all of it...

His "kingdom" can be anything North of where the wall was... there will just be no barrier anymore.

Also-- we need the blades destroyed. Add that to the big list.

 

[The_Universe]

Unattractive as some of those things may be, if he wants his freedom, he's going to have to be willing to give us something that he doesn't want to give in order to make it possible.

What he's giving you (presumably) in exchange for the barrier coming down is victory in the war against Tain, and survival against the draconids. If you're going to place limits on how he does that, you have to give *more* up, or at least accept similar limits yourselves.

If he doesn't not agree to give us his phylactory, I think it is reasonable for us to know where it is... possibly placing it on neutral ground as a back-up... we need reassurance that he is going to keep his promises. My list was ideal... I know we won't get all of it...

Well, reassurances that he will keep his promises might have to be procedural, rather than material. Furthermore, if you need some sort of external assurance that he will keep his promise, expect him to demand the same from you. What can you give him that will ensure you keep your promises?

His "kingdom" can be anything North of where the wall was... there will just be no barrier anymore.

That's a good idea, but he might want more...

Also-- we need the blades destroyed. Add that to the big list.

Yes you do. Might you also want to know why he wants them destroyed, particularly since one is his phylactery...?

 

[The_Universe]

1) A force to help relieve/capture Caer Albion.
2) A force to slow the retrieval of the blades on the Isle of Mourning, or retrieve the Blades themselves.
3) Reinforcements/equipment for the force protecting Hyrwl and New Oceanus
4) At least one other expeditionary force, to be used for other important targets that may arise.
These tasks might include...
---Retaking Oceanus
---Capturing important places like Caer Melyn
---Reacting to other Draconid invasions
---Others?
5) She also wants a naval force of some sort, but the Bluestar is unlikely to be able to provide one. For that, she may have to turn to mercenaries, privateering, or some combination thereof.

Thanks for re-posting the details of the physical forces she's looking for.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Yes you do. Might you also want to know why he wants them destroyed, particularly since one is his phylactery...?

Well, we need to work that in.

However, I do not think that we should give him any more land. Think he needs to be happy with what he has.

 

[Xath]

Giving him more land might be unavoidable. After all, he will be helping us to win the entire ringed continent, save Eiren.

 

[The_Universe]

Well, we need to work that in.

However, I do not think that we should give him any more land. Think he needs to be happy with what he has.

That's a fine limit to hope to get - but if you're going to limit him, expect him to demand similar limits from yourselves, or for something else in return. His people will be (re)dying for it, and you - giving him a frozen swamp that he already owns may not be desirable.

A good way to think about it, as JC has mentioned in the past, is the alliance between the US and the Soviets in WWII. They were very few limits on how the war was to be fought in that case, but they also let the soviets keep almost all of what they took. You don't need to do the same thing...but the bad stuff can't be one-sided.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

I have an idea!

What if we offer him the cake?!

GENIUS!