OOC: [T20] High Law and Low Justice
- Thread starter Maerdwyn
- Start date
Maybe it'll happen this weekend, maybe not. I make no promises and tell no lies.
Wilphe
Adventurer
I'm happy to spend my time looking over starships and willing to go into fetishistic detail. just so long as everyone else is.
Whether GT:Far Trader is compatible with earlier versions of Traveller appears to be a bone of contention on the T20 forum, with a lot:
"It's a big ship universe that supposes large volumes of planned trade which take no account of communication lages"
"It's always been that way"
"No it hasn't"
"Yes it has"
So I don't know how compatible it will be with Maerdwyn's vision
Anyway, the GT:FT model involves working out each worlds potential for trade (WTN) - which is based on population, tech level and starport classification. Bilateral trade between any given two words is the sum of their WTN , adjusted by distance, and their relative classification.
This means I am in the middle of working out 400 trade relationships; however a pattern is emerging:
The Outworlds is a sparse area without a great deal of trade.
A lot of the worlds count as either Na or Ni.
Which means the few worlds that are either Agriculural or Industrial look like being key.
There is so far only a few routes that qualify as being a Feeder Route under GT (About 8 x 1000 ton frieghters + a dozen or so free traders), and only a few that would count as minor (Half a dozen lines, half a dozen tramps, all well <1000 tons)
The feeders are:
Maakar - Qaran.
Er - Qaran and Sham
The minor are:
Qaran with Er, Phonwit, Karell, 945-755 and 807-946
Gergigi with Ishga
Navarino with Ishga and Phonwit
Ishga with Er, Phonwit, Karell, 945-755 and 807-946
Er with Phonwit, Karell & 807-946
Iceball with Qaran and Sham
Revelation with Qaran
That's as far as I have got.
The two worlds with the highest potential (WTN) are Qaran and Phonwit
However Qaran is an industrial world in a sector which has few, wherehas Phonwit is both Non Agricultural and poor.
Maakar is fairly important, but a bit isolated and both Na and Ni
The agricultural worlds, in declining order are:
Karell and Er (Amber Zone), then Revelation
The only two industrial words are Qaran and 807-946 - at opposite ends of the sector.
If we were going to target a single planet, the best bet would seem to be Lizir - which has no starport & hence even less external trade than you might expect from a world with low population and low tech
Whether GT:Far Trader is compatible with earlier versions of Traveller appears to be a bone of contention on the T20 forum, with a lot:
"It's a big ship universe that supposes large volumes of planned trade which take no account of communication lages"
"It's always been that way"
"No it hasn't"
"Yes it has"
So I don't know how compatible it will be with Maerdwyn's vision
Anyway, the GT:FT model involves working out each worlds potential for trade (WTN) - which is based on population, tech level and starport classification. Bilateral trade between any given two words is the sum of their WTN , adjusted by distance, and their relative classification.
This means I am in the middle of working out 400 trade relationships; however a pattern is emerging:
The Outworlds is a sparse area without a great deal of trade.
A lot of the worlds count as either Na or Ni.
Which means the few worlds that are either Agriculural or Industrial look like being key.
There is so far only a few routes that qualify as being a Feeder Route under GT (About 8 x 1000 ton frieghters + a dozen or so free traders), and only a few that would count as minor (Half a dozen lines, half a dozen tramps, all well <1000 tons)
The feeders are:
Maakar - Qaran.
Er - Qaran and Sham
The minor are:
Qaran with Er, Phonwit, Karell, 945-755 and 807-946
Gergigi with Ishga
Navarino with Ishga and Phonwit
Ishga with Er, Phonwit, Karell, 945-755 and 807-946
Er with Phonwit, Karell & 807-946
Iceball with Qaran and Sham
Revelation with Qaran
That's as far as I have got.
The two worlds with the highest potential (WTN) are Qaran and Phonwit
However Qaran is an industrial world in a sector which has few, wherehas Phonwit is both Non Agricultural and poor.
Maakar is fairly important, but a bit isolated and both Na and Ni
The agricultural worlds, in declining order are:
Karell and Er (Amber Zone), then Revelation
The only two industrial words are Qaran and 807-946 - at opposite ends of the sector.
If we were going to target a single planet, the best bet would seem to be Lizir - which has no starport & hence even less external trade than you might expect from a world with low population and low tech
Maerdwyn
First Post
I don't have that supplement (I have only T20 and the Gateway book, actually), so I'll be doing my best with this aspect of things.
My vision of trade across the Imperium definitely takes communication lag into account, and it also is roughly modeled on the way terrestrial trade and civilization works: Population and civilization concentrates where resources are plentiful, and trade in those regions is vigorous. By contrast, where population and civilization is relatively sparse one can conclude that trade is less profitable and less vibrant. Thus, an entity that has interest in propmoting trade in those areas, thus attracting more people, and more economic development, needs to do do it somewhat artificially. One method is through thte use of subsidized trade routes, which the Imperium has long employed. The Nells regime has allowed those subsidies in the systems and routes to Trailing to lapse over the last couple generations, leading to economic stagnation.
I'll try to get some more up on this (need to pick my daughter up from school), but in general, my Traveller universe is going to have less and less structured or established interstellar trade as you move further from established centers of interstellar power.
*Totally* open to comments or suggestions...
My vision of trade across the Imperium definitely takes communication lag into account, and it also is roughly modeled on the way terrestrial trade and civilization works: Population and civilization concentrates where resources are plentiful, and trade in those regions is vigorous. By contrast, where population and civilization is relatively sparse one can conclude that trade is less profitable and less vibrant. Thus, an entity that has interest in propmoting trade in those areas, thus attracting more people, and more economic development, needs to do do it somewhat artificially. One method is through thte use of subsidized trade routes, which the Imperium has long employed. The Nells regime has allowed those subsidies in the systems and routes to Trailing to lapse over the last couple generations, leading to economic stagnation.
I'll try to get some more up on this (need to pick my daughter up from school), but in general, my Traveller universe is going to have less and less structured or established interstellar trade as you move further from established centers of interstellar power.
*Totally* open to comments or suggestions...
Seonaid
Explorer
Hm, most of that means nothing to me, but here's my two cents (which might not even have thing to do with what you're talking about
):
I think we should map out our routes along less-travelled pathways. I don't think we should move out into the hinterlands, because of the threat of bandits and such (wouldn't want to fight off anyone, even if we do get good weaponry and defense). However, I think our mission can be more successful if we take on some of the planets who don't have as much trade, or who are just at the bottom level of acceptable TL (to show them how good it can be to join the benevolent group we don't exactly represent).
I'm fine with looking at all of the ships.
):I think we should map out our routes along less-travelled pathways. I don't think we should move out into the hinterlands, because of the threat of bandits and such (wouldn't want to fight off anyone, even if we do get good weaponry and defense). However, I think our mission can be more successful if we take on some of the planets who don't have as much trade, or who are just at the bottom level of acceptable TL (to show them how good it can be to join the benevolent group we don't exactly represent).
I'm fine with looking at all of the ships.
Watus
First Post
Not to complicate matters, but I'm looking at the Gateway supplement and I notice that just across the border in the Khuur League, and an easy Jump 2 from Er, Aankemishas (2629) is an Ag world with a high tech level and a class A starport. Might there be another feeder route there? In fact all of the worlds in that little cluster are pretty likely to have a strong Sydymic influence, and were almost certainly former colonies of the Sydymic Empire. Which makes me wonder about Lizir. Why doesn't it have a starport? Is that an accident of fate or a positive choice?
As for Phoniwt, it's apparently the best link into the Gateway sector and the Galian Federation, by way of Far Portal. In fact, Far Portal is an indepenent with no resources to speak of which boasts a full-on naval base. Must be to protect a pretty important trade route.
In any case, the Imperial Trade Cluster in Diamond-Prince has yet to be established, so the info for that sub-sector is totally off. I wonder if, in its primitive state, that might not also be a likely place for y'all to set up camp. Along with the nearby clusters.
Wilphe: what's your impression of Far Trader? Is it worth picking up?
As for Phoniwt, it's apparently the best link into the Gateway sector and the Galian Federation, by way of Far Portal. In fact, Far Portal is an indepenent with no resources to speak of which boasts a full-on naval base. Must be to protect a pretty important trade route.
In any case, the Imperial Trade Cluster in Diamond-Prince has yet to be established, so the info for that sub-sector is totally off. I wonder if, in its primitive state, that might not also be a likely place for y'all to set up camp. Along with the nearby clusters.
Wilphe: what's your impression of Far Trader? Is it worth picking up?
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Seonaid
Explorer
If you're open to suggestions, Maerdwyn, it would be interesting to use the communication lag to create problems for traders such as arriving with a shipment to find that the need has been filled, or falsely advertised, or both. As I said before, I read the Kylara Vatta books (the two that are out in paperback) and there's a lot of trading-related things, since she is a trader captain. This might be completely boring to the rest of you, but I'd be really interested in dealing with minor pirate incursions (minor enough that we can handle them without more trouble than we can cover) and dealing with shifting trade winds, so to speak.
That being said, if we go the trading route as our main campaign, I think we should get maybe one steady, profitable run (say, of no more than four planets) and then branch off from there, chasing down rumors or tips ("Psst, I heard that Faraway needs mining equipment and a huge consortium only one jump away just went under and is selling off their stuff cheap!").
If none of that sounds interesting, and you all would rather do else, that's fine too. I like playing with ya'll enough to keep on. And, this idea actually interests me enough that it might convince me to get off my lazy butt and GM a game.
That being said, if we go the trading route as our main campaign, I think we should get maybe one steady, profitable run (say, of no more than four planets) and then branch off from there, chasing down rumors or tips ("Psst, I heard that Faraway needs mining equipment and a huge consortium only one jump away just went under and is selling off their stuff cheap!").
If none of that sounds interesting, and you all would rather do else, that's fine too. I like playing with ya'll enough to keep on. And, this idea actually interests me enough that it might convince me to get off my lazy butt and GM a game.
Maerdwyn
First Post
Seonaid, can you point me toward those paperbacks? I need to get some inspiration for the trading aspect of the game, especially if that's what everyone is most interested in focusing on.
The stuff I have ideas for now is a little bit more geared toward the side effects of trade (diplomatic and otherwise) than on the trade itself, but I'll be happy to try to take you guys any direction you want to go
The stuff I have ideas for now is a little bit more geared toward the side effects of trade (diplomatic and otherwise) than on the trade itself, but I'll be happy to try to take you guys any direction you want to go
Seonaid, if you GM count me in 
.
For the rest : trade or not, as long as it doesn't turn into a logistics game it's cool with me. I like the side plots.
And I don't mind if we skip the entire looking at ships thingies, and let Wilphe pick a ship, he seems to know what he's talking about. On the other hand, I don't mind RP'ing it either...
.For the rest : trade or not, as long as it doesn't turn into a logistics game it's cool with me. I like the side plots.
And I don't mind if we skip the entire looking at ships thingies, and let Wilphe pick a ship, he seems to know what he's talking about. On the other hand, I don't mind RP'ing it either...
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