Opinions on Polymorph change

[Belbarrus]

Greetings all.

I was unable to search for information on this subject as I do not have the ability to use "search" on this forum.

Regarding the change to Polymorph spells from Dragon magazine #280. Basically states that the target cannot be changed into a creature with Hit Dice greater than what it currently has or greater than the spellcaster has. That change makes sense to me.

However, the Wizard player in our group believes that because he cannot use his level 7 Wizard to change the level 6 fighter into a Stone Giant permanently (and getting the enhanced strength, dex, con, size, natural armor, etc), that the spell "is now useless".

Can I get other people's opinions on this change to the spell?

Thanks.

 

[Spatzimaus]

The spellcaster can't use what was intended as an OFFENSIVE spell to give the Fighter a permanent, major boost in effectiveness. Oh no, how terrible!

It's a great change IMO, and it's staying in 3.5E from what I've read. It always annoyed me that first thing after leaving town, the Fighter would WANT to be turned into some sort of dangerous monster.

If the Wizard is upset, let him switch Polymorph Other for Polymorph Self. PO should never have been written in a way that could be used as a buffing spell in the first place, IMHO.

 

[Cheiromancer]

The question for me is, can Baneful Polymorph (the permanent one) turn the 7th level fighter into an annis? (7 hd)

Someone suggested that Baneful polymorph might only allow downgrades- ability scores, natural armor etc. cannot go up, only stay the same or go down. I *think* this is just speculation, but I'm not sure.

 

[Norfleet]

I found that the entire polymorphing issue went away when I made it so, instead of changing the afflicted along with his equipment, the afflicted, but not the equipment, was changed. Turning a fighter into a stone giant will result in everyone in the group having to make reflex saves as the fighter's armor is rapidly converted into high-velocity shrapnel.

While being a stone giant was worth something, nobody wants to wind up as a naked stone giant.

 

[FireLance]

The question for me is, can Baneful Polymorph (the permanent one) turn the 7th level fighter into an annis? (7 hd)

Someone suggested that Baneful polymorph might only allow downgrades- ability scores, natural armor etc. cannot go up, only stay the same or go down. I *think* this is just speculation, but I'm not sure.

Just speculation, but that would seem sensible. If not, the Baneful Polymorph "fix" would be like plugging up one hole and opening up another.

 

[Limper]

I've got some issues with the Polymorph Self changes We used the spell for recon... not combat and are thus a little disturbed by the changes. The new duration makes it completely worthless for anything but combat buffing.


Poly other was also used a couple of times for deep infiltration purposes but again we didn't use it for combat.


I guess the new 3.5 stance is, infiltration is no longer an option or now requires the creation of magic items... lame.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I found that the entire polymorphing issue went away when I made it so, instead of changing the afflicted along with his equipment, the afflicted, but not the equipment, was changed. Turning a fighter into a stone giant will result in everyone in the group having to make reflex saves as the fighter's armor is rapidly converted into high-velocity shrapnel.

I like that idea....

 

[The Proconsul]

I've got some issues with the Polymorph Self changes We used the spell for recon... not combat and are thus a little disturbed by the changes. The new duration makes it completely worthless for anything but combat buffing.


Poly other was also used a couple of times for deep infiltration purposes but again we didn't use it for combat.


I guess the new 3.5 stance is, infiltration is no longer an option or now requires the creation of magic items... lame.

Ahem. Alter Self. Change Self (not THAT tricky to think of versions affecting others!). Reduce. DOZENS of Illusions.

 

[Limper]

Illusions! Pah! They are useless!


Now the reason why they are useless is this... the whole 'interaction' thing is a DM call. Its the DMs call whether conversation is interaction, or if they touch your illusioned self.

Alter self is at best OK... if you have to infiltrate for a couple of days its useless.

Versions effecting others... also not in the book therefore a DM call... thus it can't be relied upon.

Reduce! How is being at best half as tall for 1 min a level useful in longer operations?

So 'The Proconsul' would you care to try again?

 

[Tewligan]

Now the reason why they are useless is this... the whole 'interaction' thing is a DM call. Its the DMs call whether conversation is interaction, or if they touch your illusioned self.

I think most DMs would go by touch, not just conversation - it would be a pretty crappy illusion that's broken just by the act of talking or listening.

Alter self is at best OK... if you have to infiltrate for a couple of days its useless.

Chances are good that, once disguised, you can periodically slip off for a few moments to refreshen the disguise.

Versions effecting others... also not in the book therefore a DM call... thus it can't be relied upon.

Most DMs I know are pretty reasonable about letting PCs research/create new spells, as long as the level/cost/etc. are appropriate.

Reduce! How is being at best half as tall for 1 min a level useful in longer operations?

When you need to find an emergency hiding place while snooping about behind enemy lines, or to help slip into someplace you aren't supposed to be.

EDIT: Quotes are tricky...