Opponent threat assessment

[Lord Zardoz]

A thought occured to me while I was responding to this thread.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=214266&page=1&pp=40

Now, the solution I gave would work. However, it creates a different sort of risk.

Using the example of that thread, lets say you have a group of 12 human crossbow men ambush your standard issue group of 10 PC's.

If your crossbow men are 1 HD warriors using non magical equipment and have nothing going for them beyond a surprise round, the crossbowmen will get ravaged in short order. If your crossbow men are 5th level rogues with rapid shot + rapid reload, and using poisoned arrows, the situation is actually pretty dangerous for your players.

Now, it seems to me, as a DM, that while springing a difficult 'surrender or die' ambush on the players is perfectly legitimate, doing so without the players having any means of knowing how screwed they might be is not quite so fair. There is simply no way for the players to assess the threat of an opponent unless they know exactly what it is, or until after the fight has ended.

Within the rules, there is no way for the players to assess how much of a threat an opponent might be in a general / vague sense. I would like to have some skill or ability check for the players to be able to get that information. I do not need to tell the players "This guy has a +X sword and +Y Armour, and a bunch of HP". I would like the players to be able to size up an opponent and get the impression of "This guy thinks he knows what he is doing, but he does not", vs "You get the unsettling feeling that this guy is better than you and knows it".

I am thinking that there ought to be a skill to handle this sort of thing. Do any of you have either a house rule for this?

If I were to create this myself:

Sense Threat (Wis), Class skill for all classes: Allows the user to get a sense of how dangerous an opponent is, but all information is relative. Synergy with Sense Motive. In situations where Bluff is used to conceal hostile intent, receive half your Sense Threat ranks as a bonus to Sense Motive.

DC 5: Can I even harm this opponent?
DC 10: Does the opponent have better attacks than me?
DC 10: Does the opponent have better defenses than me?
DC 15: Is the opponent a melee threat or a spell caster?
DC 18: Is the opponent below half HP?
DC 20: Does the opponent have an unusual advantage (poisoned weapon, sneak attack)
DC 20: Is the opponent below 25% Hp?

Special: If the opponent has intimidate, the DC check becomes an opposed roll with the DC becoming a bonus to the opponents Intimidate check.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Switchblade]

I'd give a bonus based on the BAB of the character. Someone with a high BAB is going to be more aware of stances, ways of holding a weapon etc than one with a lower BAB. This should mean a world class swordsman should have a better idea of what is a threat than a spod who just happens to have ranks in the skill. That will mean monkeying round with the DC's to compensate.

Nice idea though.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I allow some of that functionality - plus more for other specifics - via Knowledge (tactics) . It's not a class skill for all classes, but it is for all your fighter types, basically, and there are easy ways of making things a class skill, if that's ever an issue.

I would say that (fairly high DC) Spot checks should cover such things as noticing poison, where that's even possible. And 'just knowing' details like [caster OR not] doesn't fit for my version, either. Otherwise, it strays into supernatural territory, something I'd rather most of my skills not even approach, except for a few when at very high levels. YMMV, obviously.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I'd simply say something like this:

"Out of the shadows step forth a dozen crossbowmen, on all sides of your characters, 'surrender or die,' states the one of their number, they are wearing the garb of town watchmen but their weapons look finely crafted and each has the look of cold blooded and seasoned killer"

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

You've just invented The Quickening for D&D

Actually that's a very resonant idea. The more power (levels) one has the better the character can sense the power of a potential opponent, even from a distance. Kind of like a weird blend of spidey-sense and Highlander. Anything that has class levels or hit dice beyond whatever the normal is for unheroic commoners of standard races gets the ability to detect the presence of other such creatures. The higher level you are the farther away they can be detected.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Interesting idea, but I would prefer not adding a skill, but instead use BAB or caster level.

DC 10: Identify danger zones {melee vs ranged}
DC 15: Identify relative strength {they are better/worse than me}
DC 20: Identify condition of opponent {full strength, weakened, 'bloodied' [generally means hps remaning] or fully charged, depleted, exhausted [generally means potential spells]}
DC 25: Identify primary class
DC 30: Identify diffence in levels {in category groups.. kinda like mook/minion/challenge/elite/boss}

Anyway, something like that

 

[atom crash]

I typically let the PCs just use a Sense Motive check plus BAB to determine things like this, against either a static DC (something like 10 or 12 plus CR) or a Bluff check, if the opponent is faking it.

DM: A rake steps out of the shadows brandishing a rapier. He's wearing well-worn leather armor with flashy trinkets attached to his belt.
Player: Does this guy look like he'd put up a decent fight? How easily do I think I can take him?
DM: Roll for it.
Player: (rolls) I got an 18.
DM: He looks like a fair challenge to you. His CR is one or two above your level, but he's got nice gear, so he'd not go down easily.
Player: OK, I parlay instead of bumrushing the guy.

 

[Slapzilla]

Rokugan had a method for this (between Samurai, of course) and it was based on Sense Motive. Doing it this way allows for the ambushers to Bluff their appearance tougher (for capturing) or weaker (for killing) and gets you right back to square one.

I'd hesitate to add BAB to the roll as a 10th level Wizard is just as dangerous as a 10th level fighter in an ambush.

Synergy for Spot, Know. (local) (are these dressed up villagers?).

I think the description like Aust Diamondew's, a chart like Primitive Screwhead's and an exchange like atom crash's is a recipe for a big ol' Opponent Threat Assessment burrito, myself.

 

[Claudius Gaius]

Well in d20 you could probably get a pretty good idea with detect magic, since how much gear they're going to be carrying is pretty firmly linked to class level. As far as skills go...

Appraise: Is their equipment in good repair yet well worn? Do the wear patterns match, or does the outfit look thrown together? How expensive is it?

Diplomacy or Sense Motive: Do they seem confident? Look nervous? Is the spokesman a skilled speaker (high diplomacy, bluff, or intimidate), is he relying on natural talent, or is he (or she) pretty much innocent of vocal tricks and well-oiled words?

BAB: How's their stance? Are they holding their weapons properly, are they accurately aimed, are they focused on you or are they looking around?

Gather Information or Knowledge/Local: Have you heard about any high-level types operating in the area? What have you heard about this bunch?

Intimidate: Are they using the same tricks you would? Do they get nervous when you glare back?

Tactics or Relevant Knowledge: Are they properly spread out to avoid area of effect spells? Are they blocking each others line of sight? Are they taking full advantage of available cover?

Knowledge/Nobility and Royalty: Are these guys legitimate or outlaws? How well trained are the local forces?

Spot: Do they have sword or archery callouses? Lots of Scars? Look a bit young to be very experienced? Is their gear expensive enough to indicate a decent level of resources? Carrying a lot of potion bottles or similar gear?

Ride: Are they comfortable on their horses? Are the horses steady, and presumably well-trained and experienced, or are they restive and nervous? Are they plough and riding horses pressed into service?

Let everybody roll a relevant skill of choice for an at-a-glance evaluation of the situation and let them use whatever information they get as they may. If you want them to have a better idea, be generous with clues.