Optimization Challenge! - 12th level ranger, various weapons

[Mercurius]

As I said in another thread, I made an 11th level elf ranger for an ongoing campaign and am still fiddling about with him. After four sessions he is now 12th level and I have yet to use a melee weapon - he's a dominant archer (greatbow, of course) but I like the idea of him losing his temper and flinging aside his bow and diving into melee with a big sword or two. The current DM, my co-DM for the campaign, is OK with me fiddling about a bit more, or at least until I actually use melee weapons. So I'm trying to figure out what I'd prefer: two bastard swords or one fullblade (re-fluffed as extra greatsword training). "Fluff-wise" I could go either way.

Here's the challenge: Optimize a 12th level ranger with greatbow as primary and either bastard sword or fullblade as secondary. We have an optional rule that we can combine magic items through paying extra based on the power's level above the base for the enhancement bonus (1/6/11/16/21/26), so that I could take a paired bastard sword (n+2) and add, say, vicious (n+1) to it to make it a bit more interesting. The character, a follower of Sehanine, already has a Moonbow +3 and I'm working on a sword up to 15th level - probably a hybrid of Melegaunt's Darkblade (n+1), Vicious (n+1), and maybe Paired (n+2) if I go the Bastard Sword direction; with Paired it would be a 15th level weapon; without it, it would be 13th.

If I go with the Bastard Sword then I'd take Two-Weapon Style and add Quickdraw as a feat; if I go with the Fullblade I'd take Hunter Style and add Toughness as feat, so the end result is similar.

Here are my current ability scores (although it doesn't matter), basic stats, feats, powers, and magic items; feel free to swap them out:

Abilities - STR 20, CON 15, DEX 23, INT 12, WIS 18, CHA 12

Other Stats - HP 92; AC 27; For 27, Ref 29, Will 25.

Feats - Quickdraw, Toughness, Master at Arms, Weapon Prof (Greatbow), Weapon Prof (Bastard Sword or Fullblade), Weapon Focus (Bow), Weapon Focus (Heavy Blades), Improved Defenses, and Hobbling Strike.

Powers - at-will: Hunter's Quarry, Twin Strike, Fading Strike; encounter - Second Wind, Elven Accuracy, Evasive Strike, Disruptive Strike, Biting Volley, Stab and Shoot; daily - Spit the Tree, Spitting-Cobra Stance, Attacks on the Run.

Magic Items - Moonbow +3; Valharan Moonblade +3 (Melegaunt's + Vicious + maybe Paired, if Bastard); Medallion of Death Deferred +3; Darkleaf Hide Armor +2; Bracers of Archery (heroic); Gauntlets of Blood (heroic); Boots of Quickness; Bag of Holding; Bed of Rapid Rest.

Alternately you could just ad two 15th level items, one 13th, two 6-10th; and a bunch of 5th or lower...or some similar combination.

Oh yeah, I chose the Sharpshooter paragon path but am open to anything.

Here are the criteria I'd like you to follow:

• Two-Weapon Style or Hunter Style
• Bow as primary, some kind of sword as secondary - but I'm open to any swords. Maybe a 70/30 ranged/melee split.
• Feel free to recommend feats, powers, and magic items.
• Focus on optimizing at-will powers and basic attacks - the encounter and daily powers are a bit easier to pick.

Thanks!

 

[hipnotode]

I would go hunter fighting style, and fit in one weapon focus and one weapon expertise and then the weapon master feat

Weapon Master
Prerequisite: Weapon Focus, Weapon Expertise
Benefit: You gain the benefits of Weapon Focus
and Weapon Expertise with all weapons you are
proficient with.

i would then try and fit in either a monk or an assassin multiclass for the ki-focus, to save on magic item costs
that way you have focus and expertise for all weapons, and can just have a load of mundane weapons about your person.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Adding assassin in is not that difficult, and shroud twice per encounter is nothing to be ashamed of. Also assassin opens up a lot of nce feats.
Master at arms is better than weapon master especially at level 12. (the +2 bonus has already kicked in)
Your ability scores seem a bit high... if you rolled or had a different spread, it woud be helpful to include it in your challennge...

 

[mneme]

Also, Master at Arms + Ki Focus Expertise gets you the best feat attack bonus and damage bonus in the game (barring Gith and Fullblade, anyway) for two feats, plus the kickers of extra damage against bloodied enemies and fast weapon swaps.

 

[Mercurius]

Master at Arms and Ki Focus Expertise don't stack, do they? They seem somewhat redundant.

 

[jbear]

Your character is already OP for what you want you want to achieve. Do you need confirmation of this or do you need it to be even more OP?

 

[Mercurius]

LOL...I guess I'm just looking for options. I have only really DMed 4E and this is my first time playing, so I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something crucial.

 

[jbear]

Well, on the melee side of your build one suggestion would be to take Two Weapon Fighting. It will add an extra +1 DMG to both weapon attacks and it opens up some very cool feats, more importantly.

If you are thinking two big swords ... well maybe you don't want this. But if you are content to use 2 rapiers and save yourself a feat along the way then check out Swift Blade Style: If you wield a light weapon in each hand and hit with both attacks using Twin Strike: Deal extra DEX dmg which in you case is +6. Ouch.

In any case, even with 2 bastard swords: Two Weapon Opening: Crit with your main hand and free attack with your off hand.

One way to increase the chance that this happens: Multiclass into Avenger (Disciple of Divine Wrath). Now when you go into melee mode, with minor action, you get to roll every attack twice and keep the higher result for 2 rounds. This is obviously a very good time to spend an AP.

Then again ... if your focused more on your Bow you may be reluctant to invest so many feats on your melee attacks. Then again you are investing in a superior melee weapon, so maybe not.

I realise you have preferred Master at Arms, but if you are going to 70% play a bow ranger I would suggest taking Bow Expertise. +2 atk at paragon and if your target is isolated extra +2 damage stacked on which is what makes Twin Strike powerful. Your allies if they have any kind of forced movement oriented powers can even help set this up for you when all enemies are totally engaged in combat.

Another feat to consider as you are mainly a bow ranger is Sly Hunter. Your WIS is high enough to qualify, and it adds +3 dmg to bow attacks vs creatures that have no other creature within 3 of them.

So now in combination if your target has noone next to them and noone within 3 of them: +5 dmg to each attack. Twin Strike in these circumstances is brutal, but really it improves ALL of your attacks potentially. The bonus is circumstantial, sure, but with a bow that big your goal is to pick off the ones standing in the back all alone. Hehe, just to screw with you: As a beastmaster you could even send your beast in the back and mark them as your Quarry!

Another Feat to consider is Lethal Hunter. The upgrade to your Quarry damage becomes really worth it at paragon level. 1d6 to 1d8, not so noticeable, but 2d6 to 2d8... This is obviously good both ranged and melee, giving it extra validity.

Anyway, hopefully that will give you at least a few new ideas.

EDIT: Final thought: Are you choosing elf because you like elves, or because they make OP rangers? Because I think what you are trying to achieve is Feat Heavy, and no one does feat heavy better than Humans.

You lose a +2 to Wisdom, but it stays at 16 and will defense is the same. 16 is fine. Your stats are +22 above normal point buy, so ... that extra +2 to Wisdom really isn't that necessary. The advantage to humans being obvious:
+1 FORT and REF, +1 feat (especially this), +1 trained skill (great!). I would choose the Heroic Effort encounter power rather than an extra at will. Ranger's don't need 3 at wills, they have twin strike ... And it almost does what elven precision does, not quite as good, but more versatile.

Also: I think going human, Superior Will is the way to go before Paragon Defense. It boosts your weak stat and the rider of a SThrow vs Stunned/Dazed at the start of your turn is awesomely good.

Oh and: Another possibilty would be Bow Expertise instead of the all weapons expertise feat and Light Blade Expertise instead of WeaponFocus (If you went down Rapier Line); you'd get bonuses to ranged and melee atks and the dmg to melee attacks is the same, it just requires achieving Cadv (not that difficult depending on who is in your group)

 

[Mercurius]

Thanks, jbear, you've given me some new ideas but more options isn't always a good thing!

One of the biggest questions for me right is whether to go with two bastard swords or one fullblade (fluff-wise, I'm not into rapiers). I like the crit potential of the fullblade but I would lose the benefit of Twin Strike. We are using a house rule that allows us to combine magic item powers; I just got a 15th level item of my choice and I combined Melegaunt's Darkblade and a Vicious Weapon into a re-fluffed "Valsharan Moonblade" (13th level) - crits on 19-20, plus 3d12; add in another 2d12 for fullblade crit and you've got a weapon that does an extra 5d12 10% of the time. Or I could go the bastard sword route and add Paired to make it 15th level (powers cost the level above the base, in this case n+2).

Now if I multiclassed into Avenger then using a fullblade would be even better.

My powers are geared heavily towards ranged attacks; I have yet to feel the need to engage in melee, so if anything I'm looking for ways to strengthen melee capacity without hurting ranged too much. I figure the best way to do this would be through maximizing Twin Strike for melee. A common tactic might be for my character to use up most of his encounters and dailies on ranged, then jump into melee with Twin Strike to (hopefully) finish off the encounter. My best daily--Attacks on the Run--is thankfully usable for either melee or ranged.

I thought about taking Lethal Hunter, but decided against it. To free up feat slots, if I take Two-Weapon Style then I might drop Quick Draw and Hobbling Strike, and maybe one of the Weapon Focuses, then add Called Shot, Prime Punisher, and maybe something else (or keep Focus)....maybe multiclass into Avenger or Assassin.

 

[jbear]

Okay, I think in that case I'd go with the Fullblade. It is way less feat heavy. It fits better with your goal 70/30 ranged/melee. To make Twin Strike formidable it really does require some heavy investment feat wise.

My tactic would be to remain at range, and when you are swarmed get out asap. Sharpshooters really don't need to go melee at all. But I'm sensing this is something you want to do occaisionally for fun, so for the 2 rounds of the fight you do this for rolling attacks twice is nice even if they aren't double attacks from Twin Strike, with your high crit vicious fullblade. When it works it will be awesome. There is a feat that allows you to gain the benefits from oath of emnity on your RBAs (do you have a leader that can dish these to you to make this worth it?), keeping in mind a Sharpshooter CAN make a RBA as an OAtk. Anyway, Manticore's Fury will make going from Melee to Ranged far more worthwhile, especially if you can get in an OA from Fading Strike, shift away and then switch to your bow on your turn.

Here's a look at a build:

level 12
Human, Ranger: Reasons for human vs Elf talked about in edit to former post
Fighting Style: Hunter Fighting Style; If we decide on Fullblade this is obviously now a no brainer
Human Power Selection: Heroic Effort: I don't think a ranger needs 3 at wills. Nimble Strike and Sure Strike have good feat support ... but free feat slots is precisely what you don't have.

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 15, Dex 23, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 14, Dex 18, Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 11.


AC: 28 Fort: 27 Reflex: 27 Will: 26
HP: 82 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +16, Nature +14, Endurance +12, Acrobatics +16, Perception +14, Athletics +15, Religion +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +9, Heal +9, History +7, Insight +9, Intimidate +7, Streetwise +7, Thievery +11

FEATS
Human: Lethal Hunter: Just because this is your bread and butter and benefits both ranged and melee
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow)
Level 2: Bow Expertise: I may be wrong but I think you can achieve this extra damage bonus fairly easily nearly all the time
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Bow)
Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
Level 8: Disciple of Divine Wrath: Having a moonbow and being religious seems to fit; The double attack roll increases your precision such that is it necessary that it makes up for the +2 expertise bonus you miss out on from taking Bow Expertise. It lasts 2 rounds. Not many (of my) combats go longer than 9 rounds (which is the 30% melee time you are looking for pretty much)
Level 10: Manticore's Fury: Ranged attack to Melee attack: +4 dmg bonus and vice versa, making those switch in and switch out moments all the sweeter
Level 11: Sly Hunter: You know your DM. In my game you'd be able to get this ALOT, because I like big battle fields. Or if you had a Illusionist Mage ... wow, this would be so simple ... Anyway, leaving it in so you keep it in mind. Stacked with Bow Expertise this totals to +5 on each ranged attack vs isolated targets ... twin strike loves this kind of bonus! (And so do any of your ranged attacks). Obviously this is also a good time to use an AP.
Level 12: Superior Will: I think it is better than paragon defenses. A human already gives a +1 to all NADs. And your super high stats means your NADs are already good in any case. This gives a +3 in your weakest NAD and near warden-like immunity to Stunned and Dazed.

POWERS
Ranger at-will 1: Twin Strike
Ranger at-will 1: Fading Strike

ITEMS
Magic Earthhide Armor +3, Vicious Fullblade +3, Moonbow Greatbow +3, Deep-Pocket Cloak +3: A full blade weighs 10 lbs; doesn`t this make all swapping weapon concerns go away?, Bracers of Archery (heroic tier)