Optimized mage combos

[Jack Simth]

What happens if you cast Flesh to Stone on someone, break off their little finger, take the finger a mile away, and cast Stone to Flesh on the finger?

Is this casting Stone to Flesh on a petrified creature, thus reversing the entire Flesh to Stone spell (resulting in the nearly-intact statue a mile away returning to life, minus a finger)?

Is it casting Stone to Flesh on a petrified creature, resulting in all of the creature within range of the spell - one finger - returning to life, and then immediately dying as a result of having no heart, brain, or much of anything else (leaving the statue a mile away as lifeless stone, no longer a dead-not-dead petrified creature)?

Is this casting Stone to Flesh on something that is no longer part of a petrified creature, resulting in an inert fleshy finger-shaped lump (leaving the petrified creature a mile away in the same state as it was before)?

-Hyp.

Does it matter overly much to the subject under debate? DM makes a call and moves on.

 

[Majik]

Back to origins

To spice up the posts I thought to introduce a kind of competition.

Wanted to ask you people to post your best optimized builds under the following rules:

• standard Wizard 9th (no PrC) with 36,000gp (as it states in the DM for character wealth per level)
• focus on equipment building - innovative items as per DM item creation rules allowed.
• can be a specialist
• has to have the create wondrous item feat (half base cost to create item) , but can choose the other feats freely
• choose spells as per standard rule (i.e. 5 1st Level spells + 2 spells per level)
• spells out of this context have to be researched and cost the standard amount of money
• don't bother with standard non magical equipment, skills and ability scores.

Going into detailed spell/item discussion is not necessary, as the rules are in the books or at the DMs discretion anyway!

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Recommendation

Come to think of it, could you post your character info?

Agreed. If you posted a synopsis of your PC, we would be able to offer you more precise advice.

-Samir

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does it matter overly much to the subject under debate?

Of course it does.

Because until that question's answered, we can't know how much harder it is to restore someone who's been Flesh to Stoned and ground into sand; the sand mixed thoroughly one part to a thousand with sand from the beach; the sand mixture used to create glass; the glass blown into hundreds of tiny decorative ornaments and distributed around the world.

In theory, the person is still alive, just in lots of different places... and in a form that's no longer a valid target for Stone to Flesh.

-Hyp.

 

[Jack Simth]

Of course it does.

Because until that question's answered, we can't know how much harder it is to restore someone who's been Flesh to Stoned and ground into sand; the sand mixed thoroughly one part to a thousand with sand from the beach; the sand mixture used to create glass; the glass blown into hundreds of tiny decorative ornaments and distributed around the world.

In theory, the person is still alive, just in lots of different places... and in a form that's no longer a valid target for Stone to Flesh.

-Hyp.

Consider: You're putting a lot of work into making sure that guy never bothers you again. At that point, it's easier (although very evil) to call up a Bhargest to kill and eat him (if he's humanoid, anyway) than it is to put him back together. You've cast a spell, taken the time to grind a statue to dust, taken the time to mix him with sand from different sources, and taken the time to make something of that sand, and taken the time to distribute said sand. You've gone to a lot of trouble to do this, when you could have just killed him much more readily (broken head off statue, cast Stone to Flesh). Doesn't it stand to reason that when you take a lot of time and effort to deliberately make something difficult, that it should be ... get this ... I know it's absurd ... hard to contemplate, even ... that one should actually manage something one took a lot of time and effort to do ... difficult?

The level of effort I outlined (turning him into a pseudoconcrete slab), is about on par with casting Animate Dead on the subject and having the skeleton or zombie hide out somewhere for the rest of eternity, or killing him, using Soul Bind on him, and dropping the gem off somewhere for all eternity. With grinding him to dust, mixing the dust, making glass ornaments from the dust, and distributing the glass ornaments far and wide, you've gone a bit beyond the effort involved with the "standard" methods of disposing of someone for a long, long time.

And he's still a creature, so a single Wish can move all the pieces of him to somewhere you specify (it's even on the safe list) which you can then Stone to Flesh and Reincarnate or Ressurect (probably in too bad a shape for Raise Dead, but he just now died, and not by a death effect, so....).

Or you can go on a quest to gather all the little glass ornaments made by the shang dynasty so you can turn him back.

Or there's suddenly a bunch of red specks in a zillion glass ornaments around the world as soon as you find one, and you can ressurect him a few rounds later.

DM call.

 

[Hypersmurf]

At that point, it's easier (although very evil) to call up a Bhargest to kill and eat him (if he's humanoid, anyway) than it is to put him back together.

... with a 50% chance that he'll be brnig-backable by his buddies

-Hyp.

 

[Jack Simth]

... with a 50% chance that he'll be brnig-backable by his buddies

-Hyp.

So you find a way to coax him into permitting himself to be ressurected a few times. Or find a way to strand him in a fast-time plane so he dies of old age. And so on. Minor details.

 

[Thurbane]

I've been thinking for a while of having a Paladin2/Rogue2/Sorcerer?...the thoughts were 2 levels of Paladin for the divine grace and lay on hands, and the rogue for evasion.

The only real problem I see with this is justifying why on earth my character would start his career as a Paladin then switch to Rogue, and again to Sorcerer...

 

[Hypersmurf]

The only real problem I see with this is justifying why on earth my character would start his career as a Paladin then switch to Rogue, and again to Sorcerer...

Don't think of a character class as a career.

Your character doesn't go in to the local Paladins' Guild and say "Look, I'm thinking of making a change, so I'm not going to be re-upping my membership this month," and then go down to the Rogues' Guild and say "Got any openings?"

Think of the character class as a metagame concept that represents how the character has grown, which talents he's acquired or improved, and so on. As far as he's concerned, he's not a Paladin/Rogue multiclassing into Sorcerer. He's an agent of his deity on earth, discovering hitherto undreamed-of arcane energies locked within himself.

I played a Paladin/Sorcerer who didn't realise his arcane spells were any different from his divine spell-like abilities; he assumed they were all gifts from his deity, and thought his familiar was a celestial agent sent to guide him. (The familiar thought it was a great joke, and never let on.) If he'd had ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) or Spellcraft, he might have realised better... but he was a rural hick from a farming background, and the only guidance he'd had before setting out in the world was from his parish priest. He'd left the village after his Paladin powers began to manifest (Pal1) but before any of his arcane spells (multiclassing into Sorcerer)... so he knew he was a paladin, since the priest had told him so, and simply figured that the spells were part of it.

-Hyp.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

"Logically" speaking, a better order for that combo would be:

Sorcerer (Born to arcane power by his blood), Rogue (his hubris leads him to amoral acts), Paladin (finally sees the light)...and then go from there.