Optimizing the bard: Inspire Courage

[Cheiromancer]

I'm trying to find ways to make the morale bonus to attack and damage as effective as possible.

From Song and Silence:

When played to inspire courage, a natural horn raises the morale bonus on attacks and weapon damage from +1 to +2. The morale bonus on saves against charm effects, however, drops from +2 to +0.

Interpreted in 3.5 terms, I take this as a +1 to attack and damage, and a -2 to saves vs charm effects.

Similarly, I interpret the spell harmony from Magic of Faerun to add a +1 to attack and damage, and +2 to saves vs charm effects:

Harmony
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting, Sonic]
Level: Brd 1
Components: V, S
Casting TIme: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Variable (see below)

When you play your instrument, sing your song, recite your epic poem, or speak your words of encouragement, you fill your allies with greater confidence than normal. When under the effect of this spell, you grant a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +2 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls when you use your inspire courage bardic ability.

The effect lasts as long as the effect of your inspire courage lasts. If you don't begin to inspire courage within 1 minute of casting this spell, the effects of harmony end.

Now comes the tricky part- the Words of Creation introduced in the Book of Exalted Deeds. Applied to bardic music, it says the following:

Inspire Courage: Double the morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear and the morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls (+2 at 1st level, +4 at 8th level, +6 at 14th level, +8 at 20th level).

First- can words of creation be used with a horn? Or do you need to be able to vocalize them? The BXD says

The Words of Creation can be woven into song, forming music that surpasses any earthly melody and echoes the grandeur of the music of the heavens.

But this is flavor text, and doesn't say that they can only be used in a song; who says that mental formation of the words wouldn't have the same effect on a performance. The Words of Creation feat is an exalted feat, and so is supernatural in nature rather than an extraordinary ability (p. 39). I don't know if the fact that words of creation is a supernatural ability helps decide whether they need to be vocalized to work.

So that's the first question- the second is whether one adds and then doubles, or doubles and then adds? I know that with the empower feat you add first, then increase by 50%. With critical hits constant modifiers are affected by the critical (but dice bonuses are not). Would the same hold true of the morale bonus- add, then double?

The most favorable interpretation of the rules (for the bard) would have words of creation work with a horn, and then, casting harmony first, an 8th level bard would be able to grant a +8 bonus to the attack and damage rolls of his comrades. +2 base, +1 from the horn, +1 from harmony, doubled by words of creation. +6 if the doubling happens first and then the addition.

Comments?

Does anyone know any other way of boosting the effectiveness of Inspire Courage?

 

[Cheiromancer]

I realize I may have been too wordy (again!). Here's my question:

Can an 8th level bard simultaneously use harmony, a natural horn, and Words of Creation to inspire courage? If so, what is the bonus to attack and damage rolls?

 

[Camarath]

But this is flavor text, and doesn't say that they can only be used in a song; who says that mental formation of the words wouldn't have the same effect on a performance. The Words of Creation feat is an exalted feat, and so is supernatural in nature rather than an extraordinary ability (p. 39). I don't know if the fact that words of creation is a supernatural ability helps decide whether they need to be vocalized to work.

Words of Creation is a language so I would assume that one must speak or sing using that language to gain the bonuses.

 

[Camarath]

Also I do not think that multiple effects which increase the morale bonus on attack and damage rolls to a set value (in this case 2) would stack with each other. I believe they would overlap and only the highest bonus would apply. Harmony could be allowed to stack with Words of Creation such that the you grant a +8 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +4 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls when you use your inspire courage bardic ability. But I don't think that Harmony and a Natural Horn would stack.

 

[James McMurray]

Words of Creation must be spoken. What you called flavor text is the only resource we have to answer this question, so it must be considered a rule as opposed to flavor text. As Camaranth said, its alanguage, thus should be spoke to get any effects.

Harmony + WoC: we ruled that the +1 comes after the doubling over at the Exodus epic arena (link in the sig). The alternative was a bit too much. Even still, +9 to hit and damage ain't nothing to sneer at, especially when it lasts for 10 rouds after you stop singing, and only costs you one first level slot and 3d4 subdual damage.

Stacking issues: To me WoC + Harmony is more along the lines of enhancement bonuses on a crit. They stack because one is a multiplier and the other an adder.

 

[Camarath]

Also I think that Harmony would replace rather than stack with the base Inspire Courage bonuses.

 

[Conaill]

The rules are open to interpretation, but here's how I would do it:

1) the horn and Harnony don't stack, they overlap.

2) Words of Creation has to be vocal, so can't be used in combination with the horn

3) Both Harmony and WoC essentially double the normal Inspire Courage bonuses. Combined, that would be a tripling (wacky D&D math), so +6 bonus on saving throws, +3 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Perhaps a little harsh, but I feel this is entirely reasonable, considering you're trying to get away with a combination of items from three different sources and two different D&D editions.

 

[Cheiromancer]

The rules are open to interpretation, but here's how I would do it:

1) the horn and Harmony don't stack, they overlap.

2) Words of Creation has to be vocal, so can't be used in combination with the horn

3) Both Harmony and WoC essentially double the normal Inspire Courage bonuses. Combined, that would be a tripling (wacky D&D math), so +6 bonus on saving throws, +3 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Perhaps a little harsh, but I feel this is entirely reasonable, considering you're trying to get away with a combination of items from three different sources and two different D&D editions.

Could you view the horn as doubling the bonus for attacks and damage, and "zeroing" the save bonus? By wacky D&D math, a zeroing and a doubling should be equal to a "singling."

(i.e. when you combine two modifiers, you express them as 1+x and 1+y and combining them gives you 1+x+y. With the zeroing operation (what the horn does to the save bonus) you get x equal to -1. A doubling is y equal to +1. So combining the two you get 1-1+1 = 1. So a singling.)

Using the horn and the harmony by (say) a 4th level bard would give a +2 bonus to saving throws, +3 bonus on attack and damage rolls. At 8th level it would be a +4 saving throw bonus, and a +6 bonus to attacks and damage. Right?

 

[The Souljourner]

Don't mix 3.0 and 3.5, it does wacky things. Words of Creation is probably overpowered all by itself, so take it and like it. The only reason those Bard pumping things existed in 3.0 is because they realized too late inspire courage wasn't good enough at higher level. That has since been fixed, and you don't need to do anymore.

-The Souljourner

 

[Camarath]

Could you view the horn as doubling the bonus for attacks and damage, and "zeroing" the save bonus? By wacky D&D math, a zeroing and a doubling should be equal to a "singling."

Using the horn and the harmony by (say) a 4th level bard would give a +2 bonus to saving throws, +3 bonus on attack and damage rolls. At 8th level it would be a +4 saving throw bonus, and a +6 bonus to attacks and damage. Right?

It all depends on how the DM updates these items to 3.5. As written I do not believe that they would stack with each other or increases in the base bard ability.