Orb of Force vs Antimagic Field

[Cheiromancer]

I think that the phrase "creates objects or creatures" is not exclusive; it doesn't rule out that some non-object non-creature could be created by a creation spell. And I also believe it has been established that Spell effects are sometimes neither objects nor creatures. So I think KarinsDad is right; the language does not require you to have orbs of force last indefinitely.

But threads where the discussion becomes this technical tend not to convince people who have already formed an opinion.
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[Dinkeldog]

Do not taunt Happy Orb of Force.

 

[Thanee]

But threads where the discussion becomes this technical tend not to convince people who have already formed an opinion.

That's often true, especially in those cases, where no clear rule exists.



To make clear what I'm asking about...

I am aware, that the spell is weird as a Conjuration (Creation) effect, but given the fact, that the spell is indeed a Conjuration (Creation) effect, does the rule about instantaneous creations apply here and does this mean, that you can direct the orb into an Antimagic Field?

It's not a question about how the spell would best be written (best would probably be Evocation with SR: yes).

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

To make clear what I'm asking about...

I am aware, that the spell is weird as a Conjuration (Creation) effect, but given the fact, that the spell is indeed a Conjuration (Creation) effect, does the rule about instantaneous creations apply here and does this mean, that you can direct the orb into an Antimagic Field?

It's not a question about how the spell would best be written (best would probably be Evocation with SR: yes).

Understood.

I think it is a loophole. I think you can use another loophole to close it.

So no, I do not think the instantaneous rule was meant to imply that Instantaneous creations are always indefinite in duration if the effect being created is not a creature or object. Nor do I think they wanted a way to get through Antimagic Fields. It is totally unintentional that the instantaneous rule can be (mis-) interpreted that way.

I would suspect that Orbs of Force lying around to be sold to small children as balls is not what they meant by that rule. They wanted a way for Conjured Creatures and Objects to stick around. Not conjured effects.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I would suspect that Orbs of Force lying around to be sold to small children as balls is not what they meant by that rule.

Especially when those kids are playing catch and one of them is quite paying attention and gets hit . . . slam. 10d6 damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think that the phrase "creates objects or creatures" is not exclusive; it doesn't rule out that some non-object non-creature could be created by a creation spell.

How can you say "'objects or creatures' is non-exclusive" and "'objects or creatures' is exclusive" in the same paragraph and retain consistency?

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Understood.

I had no doubt about that, your post above already made that clear.

Just wanted to make that clear in general...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I would suspect that Orbs of Force lying around to be sold to small children as balls is not what they meant by that rule.

Surely not. And it's clear enough, that the effect is gone, after it has discharged, which would happen as soon as it hits something.

Touch spells also are just instantaneous effects and can technically stay around indefinitely, by the way.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I am aware, that the spell is weird as a Conjuration (Creation) effect, but given the fact, that the spell is indeed a Conjuration (Creation) effect, does the rule about instantaneous creations apply here and does this mean, that you can direct the orb into an Antimagic Field?

I'm not going to weigh in on the actual rules discussion here. The rule is very unclear, and I don't feel I have a solid rules argument either way.

I will state how I'd rule it. No, the rule about instantaneous creations does not apply. An Orb of Force cannot exist outside of the magic that is maintaining its shape and power, any more than an Orb of Fire, Acid, Electricity, or Sound would do so, sans the magic containing/maintaining them. Any anti-magic field will stop them.

 

[Krelios]

I simply treat them as summoned grenade-like weapons. They exist as an actual conjured object until such time as they hit (either the target or another solid object, like the ground) at which point they are destroyed. It's a hyper-powered vial of Alchemist's Fire--or, in this case, Alchemist's Force.

I don't care to know how they're created; if I start down the path of correcting inconsistencies in D&D and making things realistic, forever will it dominate my destiny.