D&D 5E Orcs and Drow in YOUR game (poll */comments +)

[Dragonsbane]

I voted typically evil, I remain in line with our holy father Gygax.

Seconded. Praise.

 

[Lyxen]

You'll have to change the Orc Pantheon then. But sure.

There is no such thing, unless it is in the huge waste bin of good ideas that is the FR. There is only one Gruumsh and he has only one eye and one alignment, LE.

Even lives in the Nine Hells...

 

[Vaalingrade]

Lloth and Grimace there should get together. The two Worse Gods (in a multiverse were Dragonlance and Ao exist) could be the Team Rocket of D&D.

 

[Lyxen]

Lloth and Grimace there should get together. The two Worse Gods (in a multiverse were Dragonlance and Ao exist) could be the Team Rocket of D&D.

That's your opinion, but people having played and run GDQ will disagree with you about Lolth for sure. As for Gruumsh, I admit that he was not incredible, but he is way better than the awful dilution of the FR.

 

[delericho]

In my campaign...

I've decided to no longer use drow in any of my homebrew settings. I've concluded that I really don't like their depiction, and don't really think they're redeemable - there's too much history there for me to fight against what players are likely to bring to the table. So they're out. (I'm also using drow as my litmus test for how serious WotC really is about this stuff - because they're such a valuable part of the IP, but also because of their problematic nature, they're a good guide.)

When using a published setting, they'll follow the depiction for that setting. So in the unlikely event I use Greyhawk, they'll be always-evil worshippers of Lolth; in the Realms they're universally emo rebels against their evil heritage; in Eberron they're ex-slaves of the giant empire from days of yore. (Those are all simplifications, of course.)

Orcs represent that part of all of us that would dearly like to reject civilisation and all the obligations that go with it. So they tend to exist in small groups on the fringes of human society who have constantly-shifting organisations. There are plenty of orcish kingdoms, but almost none that last more than a generation.

The upshot of all of that is that orcs are often evil and extremely likely to be chaotic. Exceptions may not be common, but they certainly exist.

Incidentally, it was asked, but IMC half-orcs are sometimes spontaneously born to human or orcish parents in lands where the two races border one another - a half-orc may have mixed parentage, but is more likely to have two human or two orcish parents. (In human lands they tend to do well due to their greater strength and hardiness; in orcish lands they tend to do well because they don't feel the same compulsion to rebel against everything.)

In all cases, this applies to NPCs only - players can basically do what they like with their characters. (Even if that directly contradicts the established lore of the setting. If I ever write the official history of the setting I'll quietly edit their character to suit, but realistically it's never going to happen.)

 

[Azzy]

From the player handbook 2nd edition page 33. Paragraph 3.
"The cleric receives his spells as insight directly from his deity (the deity does not need to make a personal appearance to grant the spells the cleric prays for), as a sign of and reward for his faith, so he must take care not to abuse his power lest it be taken away as punishment."

You are the one ignoring the rules here.

Great, you finally found something in a 2e book to quote. And you're still ignoring The Complete Priest's Handbook.

 

[Helldritch]

Great, you finally found something in a 2e book to quote. And you're still ignoring The Complete Priest's Handbook.

Why on earth would I even talk about that book? Is it a core book? No? Then not everyone have or had access to it. Again, it becomes setting specific as I have claimed and proven more than what was required.

Find me a single quote in the PHB of 2ed that prove me wrong. But do not waste your time, you will not. Outside of the core books, then it is either setting specific or an optional rules from a non core book. That is a poor way to prove your point that philosophy can give clerics spells as canon. A splat book is nothing but an option that is not available to everyone as it is not everyone that has or had that book.

And in case you wonder, I do own that book. I was not impressed by it at the time and I am still not impressed today.

 

[Azzy]

Why on earth would I even talk about that book?

Because it's a 2e book that refutes your claim that "Historically, as I was saying, faith alone would give you only 1st and 2nd level spells. So at best cure light wound at a whooping 1d8. To have any higher hopes of healing better, you needed a god (demi god would give you access to (up to) 5th level spells so cure critical wounds would be available and raise dead. And that was about the same until 3rd edition where Gods saw a bit less power to them so clerics did not need them as much..."

Is it a core book?

Irrelevant.

No? Then not everyone have or had access to

That doesn't change the fact that godless clerics have been around since 2e.

it. Again, it becomes setting specific as I have claimed and proven more than what was required.

No, really, you haven't.

Find me a single in the PHB of 2ed that prove me wrong. But do not waste your time, you will not. Outside of the core books, then it is either setting specific or an optional rules from a non core book. That is a poor way to prove your point that philosophy can give clerics spells as canon. A splat book is nothing but an option that is not available to everyone as it is not everyone that has or had that book.

And in case you wonder, I do own that book. I was not impressed by it at the time and I am still not impressed today.

I don't care if you were impressed by it or not or how you feel about it being a splat book or whatever. 2e allowed for clerics to cast spells out of faith.

 

[Helldritch]

Because it's a 2e book that refutes your claim that "Historically, as I was saying, faith alone would give you only 1st and 2nd level spells. So at best cure light wound at a whooping 1d8. To have any higher hopes of healing better, you needed a god (demi god would give you access to (up to) 5th level spells so cure critical wounds would be available and raise dead. And that was about the same until 3rd edition where Gods saw a bit less power to them so clerics did not need them as much..."


Irrelevant.


That doesn't change the fact that godless clerics have been around since 2e.


No, really, you haven't.


I don't care if you were impressed by it or not or how you feel about it being a splat book or whatever. 2e allowed for clerics to cast spells out of faith.

And whatever your stance, that book is optional. So core, it does not count for an argument about clerics and gods. You used it, fine. Many did not. This is ample evidence that it was a table decision or a setting dependent thing.

 

[Azzy]

And whatever your stance, that book is optional. So core, it does not count for an argument about clerics and gods. You used it, fine. Many did not. This is ample evidence that it was a table decision or a setting dependent thing.

Whether it was optional or not is irrelevant. Whether you believe it to be popular or common or not is also irrelevant.