Orcs preview

[GoodKingJayIII]

I think that monster stats and bonuses can be adjusted as desired. Most of the early preview monsters didn't use Init = Dex + level/2 either.

Really? Huh, I must not have been paying close attention then.

The reason I ask is because skills seem to be the only thing that's not divorced from monster ability scores.

Generally, I'm cool with exception-based design (actually, I like it a lot). However, if the ability scores are used for nothing, is it even necessary to include them? I know they're there for untrained skills, but frankly I think it's confusing and something of an unnecessary throwback.

 

[chaotix42]

If Wounded Retaliation is an "immediate reaction," does that mean the orc can only use it once a round? Or am I still thinking too much in 3.5-speak?

 

[hong]

Unless it is a sharp club. Oh, hang on, that's an axe.

Don't make me call off Christmas.

 

[ethandrul]

WHo would have thought that Orc minions would be so well informed.
It seems that more orcs turn to their drudge orcs for news then any other type of minion.
Because orcish "Drudge Reports" often have news before anyone else- though they are often criticized for itheir conservative (by orcish standards) view points, and questionable accuracy.

 

[Lizard]

Sigh.

I am trying to overcome grognardism, on the grounds that when I see the same behavior in others, it irks me, and since hypocrisy is the only sin left in our society, I ought to try to avoid it. So I read the "why we did it" bit for the orc article (and tried not to scream at the authors "You DID notice MMIV ended up on everyone's 'worst 3x book' lists, right?"), and endeavored to keep an open mind.

Sigh again.

First off, what's with no 1st level orcs? Dammit, YOU FIGHT ORCS AT FIRST LEVEL. Sheesh.

Second...9th level minions have 1 hit point? (Addendum: I prefer '1 hit point' to 'die when they are hit'. It reduces a lot of rules problems.)

Third...fixed damage for minions? Kind of boring, but, meh. I can live with it. I hope there's rules for calculating 'fixed' damage from any weapon, so it's easy to give orc warriors longswords or halberds if you want to.

Fourth...minions have no skills? None? Well, it does explain the orc lifestyle.

Fifth...why does the Drudge have better armor than the raider? (+4 over reflex vs. +3) You'd think the more elite an orc was, the better armor he'd have. Seems to fit.

Sixth...an orc hospital must consist of a bag of rats. "Whack rat till feel better."

Seventh...let's say, Ghu forbid, I *do* want to make my own orcs. I know that's "tedious and dull" and no sane DM wants to actually tinker with worldbuilding, but bear me out. Nothing in the article says "This is what a generic orc is". There's no clear indicator which powers are "orc powers" all orcs get, and which are pseudo-class powers. (To judge by the drudge, there's nothing which ALL orcs get by default.) There's not even a basic racial profile to use if I want to build an Orc Fighter from scratch. Do I staple levels onto the minion? The raider? I want to make a first level orc warlord who has gathered some drudges into a bandit gang. How?

Eighth...at least they're chaotic evil. Alignments aren't totally dead.

What it boils down to is, I don't see what this system gives me that "Humanoid+levels" didn't. It seems to be more restrictive and more confusing, and if I want to mix "Pre gen" orcs with "custom" orcs, I need, basically, two sets of rules to do it, the "monster" rules and the "pc" rules. That's more retro than I like.

Can someone elaborate the advantages for me? What do you see that's superior about this, other than the fact it basically provides you with a "Box of orcs" you can pick pieces out of, if you happen to like the pieces you've been given?

 

[Lizard]

Is the Eye of Gruumsh's initiative correct? I'm getting +2 (Dexterity) plus +2 (Level) for +4. Where is the +6 coming from?

The invisible magic feats that monsters were built with (as per Mike Mearls) but which aren't actually called out in the text anywhere, probably.

Basically, instead of a structured system where monsters get feats and you can see where all the numbers come from, 4e is based on a "They've got what they've got" design system, so if an orc needs a higher initiative, poof, he's got a higher initiative.

Some people evidently consider this a good thing. Certainly, it's simpler. I suppose it's no different than "Special ability: Fast acting. The orc has a +2 racial modifier to initiative."

 

[Wormwood]

What do you see that's superior about this, other than the fact it basically provides you with a "Box of orcs" you can pick pieces out of, if you happen to like the pieces you've been given?

Asked and answered, I'd say.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

The invisible magic feats that monsters were built with (as per Mike Mearls) but which aren't actually called out in the text anywhere, probably.

Basically, instead of a structured system where monsters get feats and you can see where all the numbers come from, 4e is based on a "They've got what they've got" design system, so if an orc needs a higher initiative, poof, he's got a higher initiative.

Some people evidently consider this a good thing. Certainly, it's simpler. I suppose it's no different than "Special ability: Fast acting. The orc has a +2 racial modifier to initiative."

Personally, I think it's a mistake. The other orcs operate on the ability mod + 1/2 level for initiative.

There is a structured system, but there is also variance within that system. Which is fine; two monsters of equal CR were not necessarily of equal difficulty in 3.x. I see no reason why they'd have to be under this system as well.

 

[Evilhalfling]

hmm someone should put up a preferrence poll about 4e monsters from the excerpts.

we have officially seen the Phane, angels and those underdark things with the arm blades.
The orcs look lovely, with the possible exception of the bloodrager being unkillable.

3. You could qualify the Death Strike ability as a immediate interrupt, so it would go off before the lethal blow is struck giving the Bloodrager a 10 HP booster, after which the blow could kill him if it deals enough damage.

no this creates time pardox, if the death strike premtivley kills the person who killed the orc.

 

[Lizard]

Personally, I think it's a mistake. The other orcs operate on the ability mod + 1/2 level for initiative.

There is a structured system, but there is also variance within that system. Which is fine; two monsters of equal CR were not necessarily of equal difficulty in 3.x. I see no reason why they'd have to be under this system as well.

They don't. But I like seeing where the numbers come from; it makes it easier to change things and know what you're doing. Even if it's an arbitrary +2 for balance/fun, I'd like it called out somewhere instead of "hidden" in the stat block.