Orcs used to be Lawful Evil
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Raven Crowking
First Post
I don't use hobgoblins, and my orcs are largely neutral evil. They have a sense of honor, but are often out for themselves. In Tolkein, Sauron's orcs were definately chaotic (with the rare neutral-at-best), but Saruman's orcs/half-orcs were pretty orderly.
From my campaign background:
Covered in forested hills, swampland, and small pools, Tal Slathan was colonized by dwarves long ago, and, though they are gone, the memory of the silver and gemstones they mined from Tal Slathan’s hills remains. The old dwarf-hold was known as Marrowgate, but it’s location and the means to enter therein have been lost to time.
Men followed to Tal Slathan, and founded the village of Oakhill, overlooked by Caer Pavallan. They traded foodstuffs to the dwarves of Marrowgate, in exchange for precious stones and silver, worked and unworked, then transported these to the farther villages of Long Archer and Selby-by-the-Water. This relationship long endured, and Oakhill grew prosperous. Other small communities were founded upon Tal Slathan, including the Temple of the Silver Cat, where the worshipers of Baerbeth conducted rituals following the moon’s phases.
Then, one night in the dark of the moon, orcs from the Grey Hills sailed across Lake Elidyr in many skin boats. They raided Oakhill and besieged Caer Pavallan under the banner of the Blood-Drenched Fist. Though messengers flew across the lake to bring respite from the siege, aid came too late to save the castle. The orcish shaman, Grodd du Grumdash, summoned a great infernal shade that swept through the castle, unmanning those who guarded its walls. So Caer Pavallan fell, and those who would have come to Oakhill’s aid were captured and enslaved, or else driven from the shore.
It was in this time that the dwarves of Marrowgate vanished, though whether they were slain, or fled, or sealed themselves within their delving no man knows. What is known is that, through haplessly captured slave labor, the orcs sought to mine the riches of Tal Slathan for themselves. Yet, while they long endured, they were in the end brought to ruin by the Shadow of Grodd du Grumdash, which had lain dormant for many long years while the orcs mined and prospered.
Now, Oakhill lies in ruins, and Caer Pavallan stands over it like both a shadow, and a beacon for the lost riches of Marrowgate. Adventurers still come to Tal Slathan to seek their fortune, and indeed some of them find it. There are those who return over Lake Elidyr with pockets dripping silver, but others return with little to show, and others yet do not return at all.
copyright (c) Daniel J. Bishop. All rights reserved.
From my campaign background:
Covered in forested hills, swampland, and small pools, Tal Slathan was colonized by dwarves long ago, and, though they are gone, the memory of the silver and gemstones they mined from Tal Slathan’s hills remains. The old dwarf-hold was known as Marrowgate, but it’s location and the means to enter therein have been lost to time.
Men followed to Tal Slathan, and founded the village of Oakhill, overlooked by Caer Pavallan. They traded foodstuffs to the dwarves of Marrowgate, in exchange for precious stones and silver, worked and unworked, then transported these to the farther villages of Long Archer and Selby-by-the-Water. This relationship long endured, and Oakhill grew prosperous. Other small communities were founded upon Tal Slathan, including the Temple of the Silver Cat, where the worshipers of Baerbeth conducted rituals following the moon’s phases.
Then, one night in the dark of the moon, orcs from the Grey Hills sailed across Lake Elidyr in many skin boats. They raided Oakhill and besieged Caer Pavallan under the banner of the Blood-Drenched Fist. Though messengers flew across the lake to bring respite from the siege, aid came too late to save the castle. The orcish shaman, Grodd du Grumdash, summoned a great infernal shade that swept through the castle, unmanning those who guarded its walls. So Caer Pavallan fell, and those who would have come to Oakhill’s aid were captured and enslaved, or else driven from the shore.
It was in this time that the dwarves of Marrowgate vanished, though whether they were slain, or fled, or sealed themselves within their delving no man knows. What is known is that, through haplessly captured slave labor, the orcs sought to mine the riches of Tal Slathan for themselves. Yet, while they long endured, they were in the end brought to ruin by the Shadow of Grodd du Grumdash, which had lain dormant for many long years while the orcs mined and prospered.
Now, Oakhill lies in ruins, and Caer Pavallan stands over it like both a shadow, and a beacon for the lost riches of Marrowgate. Adventurers still come to Tal Slathan to seek their fortune, and indeed some of them find it. There are those who return over Lake Elidyr with pockets dripping silver, but others return with little to show, and others yet do not return at all.
copyright (c) Daniel J. Bishop. All rights reserved.
the Jester
Legend
nikolai said:
Very true- though the monster look redesigns that WotC did for 3e are almost all awesome. I had mixed feelings about some of the art at first (goofy ones like the manticore), but it's grown on me.
Henry
Autoexreginated
No, I'm still upset because Moldvay took the scales off the damn dog-men! What was up with that?!?!?
Seriously, I don't remember orcs being that regimented even in the first monster manual - their Lawful Evil alignment was a mistake to me, as early as even then.
If Orcs are the regimented ones, then why did Gary create Hobgoblins? They were the ones descibed in the 1E monster manual as being regimented, whereas the Orcs were described as much more tribal. In fact, the ones in the Monster manual were the ones depicted in "cold iron helms" while the orcs were helmetless.
I'm not saying your envisioning is wrong somehow, I'm just saying I don't see it given even the old descriptions.
Seriously, I don't remember orcs being that regimented even in the first monster manual - their Lawful Evil alignment was a mistake to me, as early as even then.
If Orcs are the regimented ones, then why did Gary create Hobgoblins? They were the ones descibed in the 1E monster manual as being regimented, whereas the Orcs were described as much more tribal. In fact, the ones in the Monster manual were the ones depicted in "cold iron helms" while the orcs were helmetless.
I'm not saying your envisioning is wrong somehow, I'm just saying I don't see it given even the old descriptions.
dead said:
No one played orcs as LE, the change brought them into the view everyone had of them.
It has been a while seeing this thread repeated.
It has been a while seeing this thread repeated.
dead said:
You seem to have missed the basic question of my question, and you seem to have also taken yourself out of context. Here, for a bit more convenience:
Your sentence has a slightly different cast when read in context of the paragraph in which it appears. Please don't confuse "I disagree with you" with "I misread you".
The overwhelming answer here, by the informal survey you've spawned, seems to be "We were using them as chaotic evil already, so the rule change made sense to us." Since my big campaign world was orcless, it's not a ruling that really affects me, but I like the Chaotic Orc more than the Lawful Orc. Obviously, if it doesn't work for you, change it. Heck, you can change them to Neutral Good if it works in your campaign. There's little importance tying them to that alignment.
As of my posting this, you have about 34 posts. All the ones I've read have been complaints about changes to the rules, reasons you think that the d20 system doesn't work, and so forth. Now, that's not exactly conclusive, since I'm not really hunting through the entirety of the boards to find your posts, but it's the impression you've given me. You won't get lynched for making the slightest criticism of 3E, but if every post that I read from you involves "Things I don't like about 3E", what kind of conclusion should I reach?
Gez
First Post
Psion said:
What about Wally Wood's sexy midgets?
http://linesonpaper.tripod.com/woodking.jpg http://www.bpib.com/coolbook/wizrking.jpg
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