Order of the Bow Initiate is INCREDIBLY broken.

[Numion]

So let me get this straight. You create an incredibly twink character with specific race, stats, spells, non-standard feats and magic items, and the class is incredibly broken? You may want to edit the thread title to something a little less... forceful.

Um... WHAT?!? Those are hardly a twinked or non-standard set of feats and equipment for an archer. Actually pretty standard, if you use Sword & Fist. Every archer usually selects those items and feats if allowed, and yes, that makes OotBI a strong option.

Too strong, if you ask me.

 

[The Forsaken One]

Go to enworld creature catalogue, crack out some quicklings, give them one level of rogue or not even that. Let them have the sleep daggers they carry according to that...

And kill him.

 

[hong]

Nothin' wrong with that. Powergamers are still gamers. Reinhagenish DM's can always ban it if they think it's too one-dimensional for their storyteller campaigns.

I am so going to have to make up an ubervillain called Reinhagen. He will, of course, have the "aura of despair" special ability, whereby everybody within 30 feet has to make a Will save or fall down moaning about the injustice in the world, the meaninglessness of life, the futility of it all, and how their girlfriend has just left them. It will be accompanied by the "gaze of domination", whereby anyone who meets the Reinhagen's steely gaze must make another Will save or fall under the Reinhagen's terrible spell and take 3d6 points of Wisdom damage as the Reinhagen recites its litanies of woe. Oh, the humanity.


Hong "but isn't Reinhagen a brand of ice cream?" Ooi

 

[Tidus4444]

So what else can the ubercharacter above do? I guess in campaigns where combat is the sole focus, such a character could well be incredibly powerful, likely to the point of dominating the game. So, what happens if the DM starts running a campaign less focused on straight-up combat? How useful is that character then? I guess my point is that the game isn't only combat. At least it isn't in my experience, except way back when I first started playing. And I was 13 then.

A strong charater never ever limits roleplaying. If you're talking about out of combat skill like persuade and ect. I could make ths same argument of a fighter, woh only gets 2 skill points a level, or a sorceror, who gets likewise.

 

[Tidus4444]

Um... WHAT?!? Those are hardly a twinked or non-standard set of feats and equipment for an archer. Actually pretty standard, if you use Sword & Fist. Every archer usually selects those items and feats if allowed, and yes, that makes OotBI a strong option.

Too strong, if you ask me.

Exactly what I am saying. It's not like I thought up of some 4 multiclass character that is completely broken, almost anybody who takes ootbi will take these feats and items (hell most of em are required). /and thank you very much, I am not a powergamer like some are saying here. If my DM tells me I cannot use this I will not whine, nor will I if he adopts a counter strategy to my character (it would be pretty easy to justify if we let just one villian escape). I enjoy both roleplaying and fighting equally.

 

[TiQuinn]

I don't think the example given is particularly "twinked" out. The items certainly don't seem out of the ordinary. The only non-standard feat I see is Zen Archery, but since we're specifically talking about a PrC from Sword and Fist (one that, I think, requires Zen Archery as a pre-req.), it shouldn't really matter.

That said, Zen Archery doesn't stack your Wis and Dex bonus. It allows you to use Wis in place of Dex. Also, the abilities are powerful, yet there are other ways to defeat archers even with these cool abilities: Grappling attacks, striking the bow, good use of spells, etc. When it comes down to it, I don't think I've seen any one Archer PrC that is totally broken or uber-invincible. I like the Order of the Bow Initiate because the abilities he has show some creativity that work well with the flavor of the class. I HAVE seen multi-PrC combos, such as Fighter/Order of the Bow/Deepwood Sniper characters or Cleric/Order of the Bow/Peerless Archers that have made for some DM headaches.

I don't worry about players taking prestige classes. I do worry about them taking more than one (something that I've decided not to allow).

 

[TiQuinn]

Exactly what I am saying. It's not like I thought up of some 4 multiclass character that is completely broken, almost anybody who takes ootbi will take these feats and items (hell most of em are required). /and thank you very much, I am not a powergamer like some are saying here. If my DM tells me I cannot use this I will not whine, nor will I if he adopts a counter strategy to my character (it would be pretty easy to justify if we let just one villian escape). I enjoy both roleplaying and fighting equally.

Recalculate the character without the stacking Dex and Wis and you'll probably find that it comes back down to earth quite a bit. Also remember that some of your abilities only work when you are within 30' of your opponent. Even if you aren't taking AoOs, that's not necessarily a place where you want your archer to be.

 

[Felon]

I am so going to have to make up an ubervillain called Reinhagen. He will, of course, have the "aura of despair" special ability, whereby everybody within 30 feet has to make a Will save or fall down moaning about the injustice in the world, the meaninglessness of life, the futility of it all, and how their girlfriend has just left them.

Oh sweet mercy, that’s good.

Well, if there’s gonna be a villain called Reinhagen, how about a crony by the name of Bradstreet? He’s got a unique PrC that gives him a special brand of bardic performance. He has only one rank in Perform, because his sole means of artistic expression is defined as “tracing”, but many many ranks in Bluff. When anyone within 30 feet views one of his works they must immediately make a Will save. If they fail, they empty their coin purses at his feet and declare it the greatest piece of artwork rendered since someone traced a photograph of sliced bread.

 

[EricNoah]

I'm gonna slide this one over to the Rules forum. (My own rule of thumb is ... if the thread involves math, it goes in the Rules forum ). Plus over there you've got guys and gals who have been doing this "smackdown" type of character with just about every combo of race, PrC and class known to humankind. They'll help straighten you out.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Your character has fortitude saves like a girly wizard.

He's powerful, but not game-breaking unless your DM has combats that are limited to one tough opponent as opposed to several somewhat-tough ones.

I'm not saying he isn't good, but to quote Han Solo, "Don't get cocky kid."