D&D 5E Orion Black No Longer a D&D Designer [UPDATED!]

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WotC employee Orion Black announced yesterday that they were no longer working for the company or on D&D, citing the corporate culture at the company.

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"It's July 3th and I no longer work for Wizards of the Coast. I no longer work on D&D, the little that I did. This is going to be a long thread and my last for quite a while, so bear with me.

I took the job for two reasons. The first was for the dream. To escape poverty doing what I love, writing and making games. The second was to make D&D welcoming to the millions who are scorned by it.

A lot of people had hope for D&D that they carried with me. While some people were upset to see me work for a corporation that overshadows indie, others hoped that I would be able to make real change. I tried. I failed. And I lost a lot.

Liking a tweet or post, RTing, or even following people who speak ill of WotC can lose you your job in an instant. That's why you never see it happen. @Zbeg is 100% correct. It's a silencing tool. I can say more now.

Kindness doesn't replace respect. Working within your comfort zone doesnt support change. Most people in that group were not ready for me to be there, a nonbinary Black person who would actually critique their problems. Idk what they expected.

I worked hard for a very long time. I got a lot of smiles and vocal support, but it was followed by inaction and being ignored. My coworkers were frustrated for me, and still are now. I confided in them often, cried on shoulders on a few occasions.

I realized at one point that leadership had given me 2 assignments over about 5 months. It was mostly me asking project leads for work, searching out opportunities. Leadership didnt really care about me or my growth. I had to.

I firmly believe that I was a diversity hire. There was no expectation for me to do much of anything. I probably disrupted them by being vocal and following up. It didnt matter if I was supported by seniors and positive.

I think genuine people proposed me as an option and it was accepted because it would look like a radical positive change. It would help quiet vocal outrage. And because I had to stay silent, it was a safe bet.

I started to lose all of my confidence. I started to lose trust in myself. After finding out that I wasnt getting an extension or FTE, I resolved to just finish things out and take care of myself. To stop fighting and to just survive, quietly. But it just kept getting worse.

They would talk about how they're going to start working on treating staff better, retaining contractors, actually answering questions. How much they were invested in diversity and change even though they hired two cis white dudes into two big leadership positions during this. One of whom claimed that he doesnt know what he's doing. No naughty word. I never want to hear "maybe they just hire the best person for the job" again.

I found out that some of my work was stolen, which destroyed me. It lined up with a project they were going to do and I had sent it in to someone in leadership months ago. The project was announced and this person who contributed "forgot" that we had a meeting where I gave them my ideas, and then a follow up document the day after. I knew nothing was going to be done about it. Someone else told me that the person said sorry that they forgot. That's it.

I was really losing my ability to do much of anything. I have depression and anxiety and ADHD, all of which I manage pretty well. But those parts of me were under the pressure of being ignored, disrespected, "forgotten", and not being able to say a word to the world.

Then, as social unrest continued global due to BLM, the D&D team comes out with their statement. It was like a slap in the face. How much they care about people of color, how much changing things (that I and others had been pushing for months, if not longer) was just going to happen now. It took weeks of protesting across the globe to get D&D to do what people they hired have been already telling them to fix. You cannot, CANNOT say Black lives matter when you cannot respect the Black people who you exploit at 1/3rd your pay, for progressive ideas you pick apart until it's comfortable, for your millions of profit year over year. People of color can make art and freelance, but are never hired. D&D takes what they want from marginalized people, give them scraps, and claim progress.

I spent my time in that building worrying about how much people hated me for working there. I spent a lot of time thinking about how much it hurt to work there. I had and still have supporters, and many. Thanks to you all for being my voice and speaking out when I could not. But I felt so isolated and alone. If not for some coworkers who checked in on me, who were going through the same things? I would've quit. Every angry statement about D&D felt personal because I couldn't fix it. Because I failed, whether it was my fault or not. I felt like I was being trashed by everyone because I could not disconnect what I set as a personal responsibility from the state of the game. That part IS my fault.

But I wound up as I am now because of all of this and much, much more. I am depressed. I am unable to write. I constantly question if anything I create is worth anything. I feel like I let everyone down, and no matter how much people tell me I didnt, that doesnt change. I feel guilty for not being what y'all needed me to be, what I wanted to be, and betrayed for how I was treated at that company. It's an exceptionally kind place on the D&D team. People are very nice to each other in a very genuine way that I truly enjoyed. However, that doesnt replace respect. That doesnt delete how I was treated. It doesnt change the fact that I honestly never want to play a trpg again and am definitely not working in that field anymore.

I know that I'm probably losing a ton of opportunities writing elsewhere because of what I've said here, as well as what I've sent in internally. It may mean that I will return to poverty, which makes me feel like a failure to my race, my family, and my partner who I want to provide the world. But under all these things, I have my integrity. I worked my ass off. I did my best for as long as I could. And I didnt let them treat me like that without telling the world what needs to be said.

Trust actions, not words. Not "look at how much we freelance so and so", because freelancing is exploitation of diversity with no support for the freelancer. Not "here we finally did what we KNOW we should've done a long time ago", because they only care about how optics turn to dollars. EVERYTHING involving D&D will continue to farm marginalized people for the looks and never put them in leadership. They wont be put on staff. They will be held at arms length. I hope they prove me wrong.

A lot of BIPOC and other marginalized people are trying to make their way by using D&D. Dont shame them for that. Think about how much, and when you wield your anger, that it is done righteously.

That said, I dont recommend to anyone, working for the D&D department of Wizards of the Coast."


Orion's Tweet about this. They also cite this statement, The Wizards I Know, by Zaiem Beg.

WotC's PR person, Greg Tito, commented publicly on the issue.

This should not have happened the way it did & I'll continue to fight so it does not happen again. I'm sorry if I let you down, Orion. You deserve better.


In response to an observation that this required more than just a PR statement or donation, and that it required diversity at the executive level he continued:

I have said almost these exact words for years, and more recently to executives put in charge of a community they don't understand. I am in the awful position of saying things I believe without the company making even a single, simple action of real change.


UPDATE! WotC has issued a short statement:

We sincerely apologize to Orion Black for the negative experiences they had as a contractor with the D&D franchise team. Their statement is being taken seriously and is an opportunity for us to improve the experiences of all those who contribute to our company and community. We're not perfect and we know there is more work to do. The ongoing dialogue with our community is critical to make meaningful change. We remain committed to making D&D a more inclusive community by supporting voices from people of all backgrounds.
 
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whimsychris123

Adventurer
y

Numbers matter. A not insignificant number of people steer clear of games like D&D because of their occult and demonic associations (including, presumably, religious people of colour). Same with violent content. If the tolerance of making people uncomfortable with RPG fantasy content is 'zero', our games and books will look very, very different.
I agree that numbers matter. That was my point. Yes, WotC can’t please everybody, but if a significant number of BIPOC find orcs problematic, then our personal thoughts on orcs shouldn’t matter. We should shoot for inclusivity and there are plenty of stories to tell without the classic barbaric orcs. I don’t know the numbers nor do I know what percentage would count as significant. I just know that I’m not interested in marginalizing a portion of the population because I remained ignorant or callous to other people’s experience.
 

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no way anyone in the RPG industry will hire Orion in the future,

Disagree. I've seen people melt down far worse and continue to be hired in industries considerably more picky than the RPG industry. Computer games, for example. Just look at Chris Avellone. Obviously he's unhireable now because of the plausible allegations re: sexual harassment (which have been around for years, note, they got a lot clearer recently), but prior to that he had melted down vastly more spectacularly and publicly than Orion here, made wild and extreme allegations (again, far more extreme than these, claims of actual and significant malice and malicious behaviour on the parts of others), and he continued to be hired and even became a significantly bigger celebrity on the back of that. And he's just literally the first one who comes to mind.

If I was a smaller RPG company, I'd certainly see Orion as a valid hire. WotC? Probably not, but his entire point was that he didn't believe that they wanted him there. If White Wolf was still a real thing I wouldn't have been surprised if they'd been interested, but they're long dead as any kind of creative force.

I would just like to throw out there that there is a common misperception that people who don't agree with the interpretion that sees orcs as racist or who want OA shelved etc, are all politically or culturally conservative. That simply isn't true; there are many on the left who feel like certain sub-sets of the left are going too far. Meaning, there is a diversity of outlooks on the left.

There's long been opposition to any minority-rights (ethnic minorities, women, disabled people, LGBT people, etc.) campaigning from sections of the left (especially the far-left and centre-left), particularly in Europe, where it's often seen as a "distraction" or "sideshow" (though from what, exactly, varies depending on who is saying it). It's absolutely nothing new. It was issue when I was a child (and that was a LONG time ago!).

That was my point. Yes, WotC can’t please everybody, but if a significant number of BIPOC find orcs problematic, then our personal thoughts on orcs shouldn’t matter.

Further to that, it's not just BIPOC who find portrayals/language like that problematic/uncomfortable. BIPOC voices should matter more on this particular issue for obvious reasons but people like me have literally always been uncomfortable with this sort of stuff, and I feel pretty sure that with people 30 and under, this is very common (not 100%, probably not even 80%, but over 50%? I'd be unsurprised). Most of those people will never say anything, but it's an issue.

Numbers matter. A not insignificant number of people steer clear of games like D&D because of their occult and demonic associations (including, presumably, religious people of colour). Same with violent content. If the tolerance of making people uncomfortable with RPG fantasy content is 'zero', our games and books will look very, very different.

Difference is, BIPOC people and others actually play RPGs. Anyone who is resolutely opposed to the occult probably doesn't play RPGs or even allow them in their house, and never will. No amount of change is going to help there. D&D has almost always played down the violence angle, interestingly.
 
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Mercurius

Legend
There's long been opposition to any minority-rights (ethnic minorities, women, disabled people, LGBT people, etc.) campaigning from sections of the left (especially the far-left and centre-left), particularly in Europe, where it's often seen as a "distraction" or "sideshow" (though from what, exactly, varies depending on who is saying it).

That is not what I'm talking about, at all. I am talking about those on the left who do support minority rights, but not some of the interpretations and methods that a certain vocal sub-set holds. In other words, one can be on the left, support minority rights, but disagree with how orcs are interpreted, shelving OA, etc.
 

That is not what I'm talking about, at all. I am talking about those on the left who do support minority rights, but not some of the interpretations and methods that a certain vocal sub-set holds. In other words, one can be on the left, support minority rights, but disagree with how orcs are interpreted, shelving OA, etc.

I said minority rights campaigning. It's right there in the quote. Not "minority rights". Most of these people do support minority rights, in theory. They just don't support any campaigning on them. Or they only support certain campaigning on certain issues that they have deemed "acceptable" or "safe" or "relevant". Note that their views come ahead of the actual views of the minorities involved. This has happened to more or less every minority group sooner or later. Minorities are told they are campaigning on the "wrong issues" or have the "wrong tone" or are "going too far" and so on.

Sounds like we're talking about the same people to me, but I'll leave it at that.
 

It’s not that I disagree with this, but my main point is that perhaps one ought to listen rather than lecture, particularly when people feel disenfranchised.
The goal is not to lecture. It is to open the mind of people to what is really important. Someone can feel targeted if he/she/they read and misunderstands or badly interprets what is written. It is our role as players and DMs to show that it is not so. We have to talk to them. We have to lisen and in return, they have to listen to us too. If I have been able to make a Muslim (and a good friend too) see Al Quasim as an homage to his heritage and culture, so should anyone else. An open mind is required, a willingness to talk things through. If the person if front of you have an agenda, whatever it is, you probably won't be able to convince this person of the contrary. It is unfortunate, but not everyone in the world is open minded. And it goes for both sides of the argument and even those in the middle.

Fighting sexism, racism and all phobes in the real world should take precedence over what we see in fiction books. Especially fringe book such as RPGs where these games are already filled with (usually) open minded, very inclusive and tolerant people. It might be another story in a news paper, pod cast and movies where the reach of these media is a lot more far reaching than RPGs (for the moment, I dream of the day everyone would play...) but I consider these media to be actively working on these issues IRL (even movies, but mainly because of the wide audience and attention they get.).

Also one side note.
When you are with people that share your view, you tend to assume that a lot more people share your view than what is truly happening. Fascists and white power type crazies do believe that everyone save the lost ones are sharing their views. Just as their opponents think that everyone is ready to fight with them. The truth is more grayish. A lot of people agree with the equality for all, the vast majority I do hope. But it is not the vast majority that is ready to fight for the others. I am happy to be in Canada where we have made strong law against racism and sexism. They have not been eradicated, but we fight on to eliminate these.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I said minority rights campaigning. It's right there in the quote. Not "minority rights". Most of these people do support minority rights, in theory. They just don't support any campaigning on them. Or they only support certain campaigning on certain issues that they have deemed "acceptable" or "safe" or "relevant". Note that their views come ahead of the actual views of the minorities involved. This has happened to more or less every minority group sooner or later. Minorities are told they are campaigning on the "wrong issues" or have the "wrong tone" or are "going too far" and so on.

Sounds like we're talking about the same people to me, but I'll leave it at that.

If we're talking about the same people, we're interpreting them differently. With the caveat that "the same people" is a categorization of individuals into a monolithic group. I'm talking about a diversity of people and perspectives on the left.

I am suggesting a strangely radical idea: That there are different ways to interpret things, different conclusions to come from, that don't fall into right vs. left ideology. That there is disagreement on the left about interpretation and methodology, and that some believe that there are other ways of approaching these matters that have nothing to do with quelling minority voices or campaigning.

This is the fundamental error that I see rife in these threads: "If you don't agree with us, you're part of the problem, or you don't recognize the problem." This kind of attitude perpetuates the problem.
 

whimsychris123

Adventurer
There are very few entertainment and leisure products whose target audience is 'everyone.' Even the biggest entertainment properties, such as the Marvel films, skew to certain demographics (young and nerdy, in this case). How much resources should Disney put into getting more of the high school educated 60+ crowd into Marvel films? I'd suggest very little.
I'd prefer a hobby that isn't just aimed at white male nerds. "Nerds" come in all colors, sizes, and genders. Let's welcome them all.
 


That there is disagreement on the left about interpretation and methodology, and that some believe that there are other ways of approaching these matters that have nothing to do with quelling minority voices or campaigning.

The real-world effect is that it does precisely that, or attempts to (often the result is precisely the opposite), even if it's not the conscious intention.

I think the actual difference here is that you are looking almost purely at intention, and I am looking primarily at results. I don't see a monolith. I see a number of very different groups whose different methods, criticism, and so on all end in the same place, however well meant - telling minorities they shouldn't or can't protest about certain things or in certain ways, or in some extreme cases - at all (as minorities).

I'd prefer a hobby that isn't just aimed at white male nerds. "Nerds" come in all colors, sizes, and genders. Let's welcome them all.

Quite. I was taught D&D by a woman in 1989, and I've played it with players of a lot of different racial, cultural, national and religious backgrounds. I've also played it with plenty of people who aren't even "nerds" and I think the whole "nerd" concept has kind of passed its sell-by date.

Then you know that they addressed the idea of this not being a wise decision in their statement.

Yup. It's bizarre how, wherever this is being discussed, loads of people feel the need to "point out" stuff that Orion literally mentioned, and in no uncertain terms, in their statement. I think you're quite right to ask if people doing this have actually read it.
 
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Mercurius

Legend
The real-world effect is that it does precisely that, or attempts to (often the result is precisely the opposite), even if it's not the conscious intention.

I think the actual difference here is that you are looking almost purely at intention, and I am looking primarily at results. I don't see a monolith. I see a number of very different groups whose different methods, criticism, and so on all end in the same place, however well meant - telling minorities they shouldn't or can't protest about certain things or in certain ways, or in some extreme cases - at all (as minorities).

Well, I can tell you from first-hand experience that I know many "leftists" (and some on the right)--both personally and in the public sphere--who fit the description I shared, but support minority campaigning, who don't tell minorities that they shouldn't or can't protest about certain things or in certain ways, but still disagree with the interpretations and methods cited on this forum.

These issues around D&D aren't about minorities and their allies vs. everyone else. There are a diversity of views, and a range of ways to get to the same goal (if that goal is inclusivity). What I find very worrisome is how a certain sub-set of people continue to double down on the "either you're with us and agree with our interpretation, or you are perpetuating racism and/or silencing minority views." This is problematic for a variety of reasons, not least because it disregards minority views that differ from that interpretation, but also because it makes no attempt to understand different views. But perhaps most of all: it isn't self-critical.
 

Panda-s1

Scruffy and Determined
The goal is not to lecture. It is to open the mind of people to what is really important. Someone can feel targeted if he/she/they read and misunderstands or badly interprets what is written. It is our role as players and DMs to show that it is not so. We have to talk to them. We have to lisen and in return, they have to listen to us too. If I have been able to make a Muslim (and a good friend too) see Al Quasim as an homage to his heritage and culture, so should anyone else. An open mind is required, a willingness to talk things through. If the person if front of you have an agenda, whatever it is, you probably won't be able to convince this person of the contrary. It is unfortunate, but not everyone in the world is open minded. And it goes for both sides of the argument and even those in the middle.
excuse me, first of all why is the dichotomy "players and DMs" and minorities? Daniel Kwan, the guy who's raised an issue with OA being sold by WotC, isn't just some Asian guy who happened upon Oriental Adventures one day and started clutching his pearls, he's someone educated in Chinese anthropology who also plays and runs D&D and even wrote material for the game. some of these people who take offense to certain material, like me, are also players (hell I'm playing D&D right now as I type this).

also why is it people like me have an "agenda" but players and DMs are somehow actually enlightened? how about you listen and see that just because a supplement was made in good faith and wasn't hateful doesn't mean it isn't still dated or harmful?
Fighting sexism, racism and all phobes in the real world should take precedence over what we see in fiction books. Especially fringe book such as RPGs where these games are already filled with (usually) open minded, very inclusive and tolerant people. It might be another story in a news paper, pod cast and movies where the reach of these media is a lot more far reaching than RPGs (for the moment, I dream of the day everyone would play...) but I consider these media to be actively working on these issues IRL (even movies, but mainly because of the wide audience and attention they get.).
things like books and RPGs are still objects that exist in the real world, and people can take inspiration from them for better or worse. in my personal experience it's astounding how often people will cite a fictional source to back their claims. it wouldn't surprise me if for some people OA was their only real source of knowledge on East Asian culture.
 

These issues around D&D aren't about minorities and their allies vs. everyone else. There are a diversity of views, and a range of ways to get to the same goal (if that goal is inclusivity). What I find very worrisome is how a certain sub-set of people continue to double down on the "either you're with us and agree with our interpretation, or you are perpetuating racism and/or silencing minority views." This is problematic for a variety of reasons, not least because it disregards minority views that differ from that interpretation, but also because it makes no attempt to understand different views. But perhaps most of all: it isn't self-critical.

I feel like your own viewpoint is very much within this description, particularly re: the lack of self-critical analysis, so I mean, you may want to meditate on that. You've made a huge number of statements which in the end add up to "agree with me or you're a bad person". I know you probably don't believe that, but you're doing it right now, and if you can't see that, well, that's not on me.
 

whimsychris123

Adventurer
The goal is not to lecture.
You may not mean to lecture, but you seem to be sermonizing. You essentially say that others are interpreting wrongly, but that you have the right interpretation and it is up to us existing players and DMs to spread our enlightenment of how things ought to be interpreted.

Perhaps there's not a right and wrong way to interpret something. Perhaps the dialogue could be more along the lines of, "Hey, for me orcs have never been interpreted as representing minorities, and Oriental Adventures was meant as more of an appreciation of eastern culture." "Yes, but the language used to describe orcs often mirrors language used against real-world groups to oppress them, and Oriental Adventures relies on stereotypical tropes rather than an actual reflection of Asian cultures." We accept that there may be different worldviews and don't feel the need to "enlighten" minorities about how the game is meant to be interpreted. We accept that if someone finds a certain aspect of the game problematic, we can get rid of it or change it.

Perhaps there are bigger fish to fry when fighting for equity. However, we also need not dismiss other people's experiences of certain aspects of the game because they don't fit into our personal point of view.
 
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I feel like your own viewpoint is very much within this description, particularly re: the lack of self-critical analysis, so I mean, you may want to meditate on that. You've made a huge number of statements which in the end add up to "agree with me or you're a bad person". I know you probably don't believe that, but you're doing it right now, and if you can't see that, well, that's not on me.
Essentially "Do as I say. Not as I do"
Overbearing attitudes are quite common in TTRPGs. No surprise.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
Then you know that they addressed the idea of this not being a wise decision in their statement.
Yup. It's bizarre how, wherever this is being discussed, loads of people feel the need to "point out" stuff that Orion literally mentioned, and in no uncertain terms, in their statement. I think you're quite right

I see that Orion has addressed this for now: doesn't mean I can't be sad to see self-immolation that can't be taken back in a different frame of mind at a later time.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I feel like your own viewpoint is very much within this description, particularly re: the lack of self-critical analysis, so I mean, you may want to meditate on that. You've made a huge number of statements which in the end add up to "agree with me or you're a bad person". I know you probably don't believe that, but you're doing it right now, and if you can't see that, well, that's not on me.

This is absurd.
 



You may not mean to lecture, but you seem to be sermonizing. You essential say that others are interpreting wrongly, but that you have the right interpretation and it is up to us existing players and DMs to spread our enlightenment of how things ought to be interpreted.

Perhaps there's not a right and wrong way to interpret something. Perhaps the dialogue could be more along the lines of, "Hey, for me orcs have never been interpreted as representing minorities, and Oriental Adventures was meant as more of an appreciation of eastern culture." "Yes, but the language used to describe orcs often mirrors language used against real-world groups to oppress them, and Oriental Adventures relies on stereotypical tropes rather than an actual reflection of Asian cultures." We accept that there may be different worldviews and don't feel the need to "enlighten" minorities about how the game is meant to be interpreted. We accept that if someone finds a certain aspect of the game problematic, we can get rid of it or change it.

Perhaps there are bigger fish to fry when fighting for equity. However, we also need not dismiss other people's experiences of certain aspects of the game because they don't fit into our personal point of view.
Ok, why would their view be better than mine? If you can show them that what they saw can be viewed in an other light, could they temper their feeling? Would it help them understand the game? Could it put them at ease and heal their feelings? And what if I find that their interpretation is hurting my feelings too? Are my feelings lesser than theirs? Nope. We are all equals. What one view, an other might be blind to it. Sometime just having another point of view shown to you can make you ponder if you were right in seeing what you saw. I do not diminish and dismiss their feelings and point of views; nor should they dismiss my point of view too (or feelings). It is through discussion that we can understand each other. Maybe if they are explained that this POV can be applied to many other culture through history that they could change their mind.

excuse me, first of all why is the dichotomy "players and DMs" and minorities? Daniel Kwan, the guy who's raised an issue with OA being sold by WotC, isn't just some Asian guy who happened upon Oriental Adventures one day and started clutching his pearls, he's someone educated in Chinese anthropology who also plays and runs D&D and even wrote material for the game. some of these people who take offense to certain material, like me, are also players (hell I'm playing D&D right now as I type this).
Strange that an "expert" gets hurt, but the common asian person isn't... Again, you can see what you want to see. OA never said: "This is an accurate depiction of all Asian cultures." It was inspired by it (and mostly by Japan), but it does not represent the whole of Asian culture. Not in the least and never will.

also why is it people like me have an "agenda" but players and DMs are somehow actually enlightened? how about you listen and see that just because a supplement was made in good faith and wasn't hateful doesn't mean it isn't still dated or harmful?
Never said you had an agenda. If you got that impression, I am sorry. I was speaking of no one in particular. Never said that all DMs and players were enlightened either (is there any? I do not know). But they know the game. They know we are inclusive and not hateful toward anyone (at least that I know and am aware of. Again speaking generally). I have listened, reread and still see no wrong in those books. I would not stop selling these. I much prefer to fight the "ism" in the real world. See the second point below for more.

things like books and RPGs are still objects that exist in the real world, and people can take inspiration from them for better or worse. in my personal experience it's astounding how often people will cite a fictional source to back their claims. it wouldn't surprise me if for some people OA was their only real source of knowledge on East Asian culture.
On that I agree. But misconceptions can be corrected. A better preface explaining that OA was not and is not an accurate representation of asian culture might be order to satisfy some people, yes. But again, if you can believe a work of fiction to be real... man this person have a bigger problem.

OA was a gateway to make you learn about asian culture. Not only japaneese, but chineese, korean, vietnameese and many others. The book hooked a lot of young players and they started to buy and read about Asian culture. Some stopped at the Japaneese culture, others at the chineese others got the whole thing and others went on without looking any further than the OA book. Guess what? This is true for every inspired fictional books. Hell... some people currently speak Klingon and Elven. Fiction can inspire the real world that is a fact. But the real world inspire fiction even more.
 

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