D&D 4E OT: Shadowrun 4E announced

[Felon]

Even so, we can still argue until we are blue in the face over the goodness/baddness of this thing that will never exist, right? Right??

Well, when you put it like that I suppose we should all go jump in on that thread that's going to cure cancer and end world hunger....

 

[Thanee]

So, when's D20 SR coming out?

Never!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Vocenoctum]

Personally, I think the SR stuff FanPro put out was some of the best the game line has seen (especially their "Shadows of" books). And that they pushed the Immortal Elves(TM) a bit into the background was a plus, too. About the only thing I didn't like were the changelings...

As I mentioned in a discussion long ago, if more folks are buying the current SR then the previous SR, then by all means it's a good thing from the company standpoint to follow that direction and keep the new fans happy.
That said, I've mentioned before, that new SR's "feel" is different, and I think it comes down to a USA vs Euro feel. It's not a value judgement, but it is a recognition that the cultures are different and catering to one's preference can alienate the other's.

As of that discussion (around when SoE came out) SR-FanPro is not selling as well overall as SR-FASA. The USA market is in a big slump (for RPG's in general) while the Euro (esp German) market is increasing (for SR). So, they're catering to the increasing market. And nothing makes people buy all new books like a new edition, so now they have one. At the same time, it will let them change some basic fundamentals of the game to reflect their current philosophy.

In a way, the complaints mirror the D20 Discussion. You can't change Magic to be D20, because the magic is part of the feel. You can't change Deckers into something easy to integrate in SR4 without losing what they were. The idea that a core mechanic should rule SR4 is the same as the D20 philosophy IMO. If you want to make it easier, make it D20.

 

[Umbran]

Hm, you know, in terms of intellectual excercise, doing a conversion of SR into d20 is kind of old hat. All sorts of things have been converted in that direction. Instead, why not try it the other way?

Take D&D, and create a version of it that runs under Shadowrun rules!

 

[GlassJaw]

Take D&D, and create a version of it that runs under Shadowrun rules!

Once again, Umbran blows me away!

Come to think of it, D&D using SR mechanics would be pretty sweet, at least the magic system. Melee combat isn't SR's strong point but it's decent enough.

 

[twofalls]

Does all of this clack about a the pro's and con's of D20 Shadowrun mean that the market can't bear both? Some folks love the simplicity of one core mechanic for all thier games (it works well for GURPS) and D20 is their machanic of choice. Some folks prefer the game with the probablility curve of a fistfull of D6's, why not publish two systems? With all the passion invested in the debate, I fail to believe there isn't many someone's out there who would be willing to tackle the design, so the question I ask is this: Does FanPro refuse a D20 converstion for fear of splitting the market and loosing in both fields, or is it some sense of politics that prevents the conversion?

I've run games for 26 years, and have played D&D nearly since it was born, and Shadowrun from its inception... every edition of both games sit on my game shelf to this day. Currently I run two active D20 D&D games and an every other weekly Shadowrun game. I wouldn't be interested in a D20 Shadowrun system... but that's because I enjoy the variety. I will likely purchase SR4, because I collect games. I've spent many years working on mastering the incredibly complex rules of SR3, and the idea of dumping all that work for a new system makes me feel a little tired. System matters, but story is by far more important, and my players trust me to run a good story no matter what system we use.

How about this, dump both the rulesets and use the Alternity rules, they are graceful and simple.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

How about this, dump both the rulesets and use the Alternity rules, they are graceful and simple.

Bah.

Silhouette Core > Alternity

Then the Shadowruners get to keep their d6s, but with a more elegant and streamlined system.

 

[Super Girl]

1) M&M does this by having PC's start at a higher power level. Since SR default PC's are generally capable, I think starting at a higher level is understandable.

2) The M&M system for damage encompasses wounds.

I'm not saying SR would make a good D20 game, but it depends on what you want from the game.

To me, the biggest draw about SR is that anyone can be good at anything, and that it is not defined by a class what a person can and cannot do. If you want a mage that is just as good with pistols as the Gun Bunny, you can be every bit as good skillwise, and if your willing to sacrifice a bit of essence you can even get the wizbang cyber gear too. If you want your Decker to be a face man, well, you can do that. The freedom of not having your concept screwed by a class system that says you have to be bad at fighting if you can do magic, or that you cannot be a hulking tough as nails combat biker & a darn good decker to boot.

I love the karma(experience) system, you can learn what you want to learn, spells, skills, raise your attributes, you can spend your karma on whatever you want, and because its a cyberpunk world that devalues human life, you can even sell your karma to mages and spirits.

Shadowrun would work fine in Mutants and Masterminds, actually, there is a game just like that going on right now in play-by-post. The problem I have with a conversion to "D20" is that people don't mean that, what they actually mean is shoe-horning it into Classes and Levels which takes the fun out of it for me. I can like the setting but if the rules are clunky or a pain to play, as classes are to me, I'd frankly rather not play it.

 

[drothgery]

Does all of this clack about a the pro's and con's of D20 Shadowrun mean that the market can't bear both? Some folks love the simplicity of one core mechanic for all thier games (it works well for GURPS) and D20 is their machanic of choice. Some folks prefer the game with the probablility curve of a fistfull of D6's, why not publish two systems?

Dual-stating doesn't seem like a great idea; I don't know that it's ever really worked out long-term for any game. You usually end up with only one supported system, or sometimes no supported systems (because framentation killed an already small market).

Now, I'm in favor of as many games being d20 or d20-esque OGL as possible. I'm far, far more likely to pick up a d20 game than a non-d20 game. But the business case for sticking with one system, no matter what it is, is almost certainly stronger than the one for dual-statting.

 

[Thanee]

Silhouette Core > Alternity

Silhouette? That one from Dreampod9?

You must be kidding!

That's one of the worst systems I know.

Bye
Thanee