D&D 4E OT: Shadowrun 4E announced

[Felon]

Glass, you have the sequence of events wrong. In this thread and others like it, someone says something along the lines of "gee, wouldn't a d20 version of SR be nice?", to which others feel compelled to say "no, it wouldn't work". And mind you, the naysayers typically don't merely restrict their comments to saying they personally wouldn't buy such a product, but rather they insist such a conversion would be both an outrage and a universal failure.

If folks like SR as is, great. But don't shoot down my ideas and expect me not to respond.

 

[GlassJaw]

rather they insist such a conversion would be both an outrage and a universal failure.

And those that disagree usually respond in kind.

I've read many SR d20 discussions and you know what they all have in common? They all result in people getting mad at each other and no one's mind is changed. There are a lot of similarities with discussing politics and d20 Shadowrun, and most of them are negative.

In "defense" of the SR supporters, I think one of the fears is that with a d20 version of Shadowrun will come the end of the current Shadowrun. There's no reason why they couldn't coexist but because the biz is the way it is and the circumstances that would have to occur to make it happen, it would most likely mean the death of the current SR, or at least any future support of it.

 

[Felon]

And those that disagree usually respond in kind.

I'm not sure what would constitute responding in kind, but you did just get 3 replies in a row from the pro-d20 side expressly not begrudging the pro-status-quo crowd the current system. To each their own.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

In "defense" of the SR supporters, I think one of the fears is that with a d20 version of Shadowrun will come the end of the current Shadowrun. There's no reason why they couldn't coexist but because the biz is the way it is and the circumstances that would have to occur to make it happen, it would most likely mean the death of the current SR, or at least any future support of it.

If only there were, y'know... actual evidence for that.

Rokugan d20 didn't kill the original; in fact, AEG has recently stopped doing dual-stat books for the line to focus on its in-house system.

Call of Cthulu d20 didn't kill Call of Cthulu BRP. Like AEG, although presumably for different reasons, Chaosium killed their dual stat line in favor of the BRP line.

BESM d20 didn't kill BESM Tri-Stat. GoO is still producing dual-stat books and doing quite well, despite their unforunately currency conundrum.

It's probably too early to tell if T20 will kill Classic Traveler (was Classic Traveler even still in production?), but historical evidence argues against it.

FanPro refusing to allow even a one-shot Shadowrun d20 core book kills official Shadowrun d20. That's not a possibility, it's a simple fact. Without the company that owns Shadowrun signing off on a d20 version of it, no one will ever be able to (legally) buy or sell said version.

I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever that FanPro allowing a company to produce Shadowrun d20 would harm the current version of Shadowrun, much less kill it.

 

[Thanee]

No, it wouldn't kill it, but it would have a detrimental effect on the real Shadowrun, since it would cost manpower to make it, which could then not work on the actual game.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Geron Raveneye]

I also think it has a tiny bit to do with the fact that FanPro is the legal owner and heir to the only german roleplaying game that was designed to compete with D&D on the german market in the early 80's...DSA. They've released a 4th edition of that game two years ago, which tried to make it more flexible, and actually would have been much better done with d20. I don't think FanPro is going to even think about touching a d20 license for any of their games with a long pole, as it would too much look like they're letting "the enemy" into their camp.

And just for the record, the Shadowrun d20 discussion over on the d20 games forum is running very politely and agreeing.

 

[Dr Simon]

And all of a sudden, star wars is actually an epic fantasy, not a sci fi...

But surely Star Wars has *always* been epic fantasy (in space) rather than sci fi?

To return to topic(ish):

Put me in the camp of people who loathe rolling fistfuls of dice as a clunky and inelegant mechanic (I was probably soured by playing in a game with a player who took ages to count his successes - he could, I admit, just as easily been someone who takes ages to add his bonuses to his d20 roll so its not *really* a game fault).

I never found SR combat to be very dangerous - ridiculously the opposite way sometimes.

I love the sourcebooks for SR, although overall they could do with a little more coherence in the world. Never liked the system and I've always adapted it to whatever I'm playing at the time.

Edit - what kind of word is "adapated"?

 

[Thanee]

Yep, Star Wars is a perfect example for a game, which works great with d20.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ottergame]

Rokugan d20 didn't kill the original; in fact, AEG has recently stopped doing dual-stat books for the line to focus on its in-house system.

Actually there was a huge fear among L5R fans (myself included) that if the d20 system caught on, AEG would drop their in house system in favor of continuing the d20 books.

Thankfully that wasn't the case, because d20 did a rather poor job of keeping the "Rokugan" feeling that was in the L5R game. The books were well written fluff wise, and I own a few of them, but d20 utterly failed to capture the same atmosphere that was in the in house system.

In the end, all in managed to do was dilute the overall quality of the material, slowed the release schedule for the real game, and divided the community a bit over the 2 very different games. And THAT's the big fear people have of FanPro making a SRd20 book. That it will make the quality suffer, that it will slow the book schedule, and that it will divide the community.

I don't think any SR supporters have a problem with Joe Smith making a homebrew SRd20 system, it's with FanPro doing it, and end the end only harming Shadowrun.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

FASA closed it's doors, SR went to WizKids, which licensed it to FanPro, therefor FanPro sort of took over. They had no idea what they were doing, and relied on the Dumpshock Clique for support in a lot of ways.

As for the "ruin it" stuff, SR's flavor has changed over the years, and IMO not for the better.

Personally, I think the SR stuff FanPro put out was some of the best the game line has seen (especially their "Shadows of" books). And that they pushed the Immortal Elves(TM) a bit into the background was a plus, too. About the only thing I didn't like were the changelings...