[OT] today's random language gripe

[Ferret]

Noone would be fine but you have the double vowl, it's the same reason that people do not say reendanger, that would sound like Reen danger. So people would usually say Re-endanger. However(another two words in one, and another is one too) people have the luxury of saying "no one" as no is not a prefix.

I do agree english is strange, we have as far as I can tell 14 ways to pronounce ough:
1. awe: thought, bought, fought, brought, ought, sought, nought, wrought
2. uff: enough, rough, tough, slough, Clough, chough
3. ooh: through, slough
4. oh: though, although, dough, doughnut, broughm, Ough, furlough, Greenough, thorough
5. off: cough, trough
6. ow: bough, plough, sough
7. ou: drought, doughty, Stoughton
8. uh: Scarborough, borough, thorough (alt), thoroughbred, Macdonough, Poughkeepsie
9. up: hiccoughed
10. oth: trough (alt)
11. ock: lough, hough
12. oc[h] (aspirated): lough
13. ahf: Gough
14. og: Coughlin (also #5)

Stange language(Starange word)

 

[Pielorinho]

Language does get into the dictionary based on how it is used, but that doesn't make it correct!

What does make it correct? The Word Fairy?

Daniel

 

[Rune]

What does make it correct? The Word Fairy?

Daniel

Why, the rules (almost said, "laws" ) of grammar, of course.

Language (and I'm including music in this argument) is not subjective--although it's interpretation can be.

 

[Pielorinho]

Why, the rules (almost said, "laws" ) of grammar, of course.

Which rule of grammar claims that "quote" acts a verb and not as a noun? How would I use such a rule? Does the same rule outlaw sentence fragments like a certain quoted post above?

(Notice that every verb in this post functions as a noun in other sentences).

Daniel

(edit: substitute "acts" for "is")

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

I have a great dislike for people who speak in MTV Hip Hop speak once they are over the age of, say, 17. I know, it's a different culture than mine, but it's annoying and IMO, makes the speaker sound very uneducated and trashy.

It's one thing to speak that way joking around with your friends, but another when you speak that way in a professional environment.

There is a woman at my job who is 32 years old, married with a child and she speaks this way all day long, with no regard for the fact that some people are very offended by her choice of language. It's also a little annoying because I work for a publisher and you'd think they'd hire people who spoke proper English at a publisher....

Now, I'm not saying I am a genius, but you would never hear a phrase such as "Where them reports be at?" come out of my mouth, unless I was being sarcastic. This woman says things like that on a regular basis, in meetings, to our boss etc.

I take a lot of slack for this opinion, because people think it's "racist" which is not me at all (one of best friends is african american and she does not speak this way, and thinks people who do have serious issues).

I know people of all races who speak this way and they all sound...well...just silly to me.

 

[johnsemlak]

I direct you to the last paragraph of the post you quoted from. Language does get into the dictionary based on how it is used, but that doesn't make it correct!

IMHO 'correct' and 'incorrect' are not really accurate terms when describing how (at least native speakers) people use their language.

Communication (e.g. language) is either 'effective' or 'ineffective'.

 

[Rune]

Which rule of grammar claims that "quote" is a verb and not a noun? How would I use such a rule? Does the same rule outlaw sentence fragments like a certain quoted post above?

(Notice that every verb in this post functions as a noun in other sentences).

Daniel

The one that has us use words according to what they mean.

Alright (a non-standard variant of all right--in other words, an abrieviation), I will concede that the evolution of language is allowing "quote" to develope a new context and may not be wrong forever (some would say the point is already passed). I concede this only because the only grammatical error is the one I suggested above.

However, phrases such as, "from whence" will never be correct, because they break more solid rules. Namely, in this case, the phrase is repetitive.

"Whence" means from where.

 

[Urbannen]

My vocabulary impacted my thinking

IMPACT.

How did the grammar discussion impact you?

Am I just crazy, or did people stop using the word "affect" in the last ten years and replacing it exclusively with the word "impact"?

Hey wait, American Heritage dictionary agrees with me:

USAGE NOTE: The use of impact as a verb meaning “to have an effect” often has a big impact on readers. Eighty-four percent of the Usage Panel disapproves of the construction to impact on, as in the phrase social pathologies, common to the inner city, that impact heavily on such a community; fully 95 percent disapproves of the use of impact as a transitive verb in the sentence Companies have used disposable techniques that have a potential for impacting our health. •It is unclear why this usage provokes such a strong response, but it cannot be because of novelty. Impact has been used as a verb since 1601, when it meant “to fix or pack in,” and its modern, figurative use dates from 1935. It may be that its frequent appearance in the jargon-riddled remarks of politicians, military officials, and financial analysts continues to make people suspicious. Nevertheless, the verbal use of impact has become so common in the working language of corporations and institutions that many speakers have begun to regard it as standard. It seems likely, then, that the verb will eventually become as unobjectionable as contact is now, since it will no longer betray any particular pretentiousness on the part of those who use it. See Usage Note at contact.

Sorry, this use of "impact" is the equivalent of the scratching of nails down my mental grammatical blackboard. Had to share.

 

[Rune]

IMHO 'correct' and 'incorrect' are not really accurate terms when describing how (at least native speakers) people use their language.

Communication (e.g. language) is either 'effective' or 'ineffective'.

I've gathered that. And I think it's a fairly common opinoin. But, I'll continue to assert, as I did above, that language is not subjective--only it's interpretation is.

I extend this to music, because I think it's relative. A lot of people think music is subjective, but it isn't. You can't just throw random notes together and make any sense. However, it's interpretation certainly is subjective.

Now, to bring this thread on-topic, does anybody else (besides me) have the Language skill be a ranked skill?

I have any language a character starts with be a languange that the character is fluent in (well, I seperate reading/writing from spoken, but that's a different issue), but languages learned after are learned like any other skill.

 

[randomling]

I'm with Clay and everyone else who said language is defined by use. Language, after all, IS use.

As for the various permutations of "their/there/they're" and other mis-spellings, English is one of the most devilishly difficult languages to spell (as any foreign learner or English-speaking schoolchild will tell you). The correspondence between letters and sounds is sketchy at best and in some words (tough/through/though, anyone?) nonexistent. I'm forgiving about spelling and grammar errors because of this. (Most grammatical "errors" aren't errors at all, just nonstandard uses.)

I wanted to get into the "what makes it correct?" debate a little, as I study language and it interests me. Here's what the discipline of linguistics has to say on the matter:

There are two types of "errors" in a language. One are descriptive errors... genuine grammatical errors that any native speaker would recognise as just plain wrong:

*The fairy is cat.
*It's a flying fishes they are.

(These aren't just sentences that don't make sense. "#The colourless green ideas sleep peacefully." is grammtical, if semantically very strange.)

The other type of error is a prescriptive error. Prescriptive errors are dictated by the kind of grammatical rules you are taught in English class or read about in the letters pages of newspapers: don't split the infinitive, don't end a sentence with a preposition. But sentences that break these rules are not wrong English sentences:

To boldy go where no one has gone before.
Who's that letter from?

How to spell "no one" or "their" are prescriptive rules. The rules violated above ("cat" is a noun not an adjective; co-indexed NPs must agree in number [sorry, no other way to say that!]) are descriptive rules.

My bugbear, by the way, is people who say "haitch" for "aitch" (H). It's not "haitch" dammit!

* denotes an ungrammatical phrase
# denotes a semantically odd phrase