[OT] Twilight 2000

I've only played the 2nd edition, but our group found the combat system to be clunky as well. We simplified it a bit after a couple of sessions, and things went smoothly after that.

I wasn't a huge fan of the character creation process (too little control -- although that was a fun change of pace -- and problems with the young and unskilled vs. old and skilled issue), but the game's believability, theme and atmosphere are unbeatable in that genre, IMO.

Based on what I've seen here so far (particularly Goodsport's writeup), I'd look around for a 2.0 or 2.2 rulebook rather than picking up the 1.0 reprint. I've actually been meaning to do just that for a little while now -- thanks for reminding me. :)
 

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ColonelHardisson said:
I guess the two editions must have somewhat similar rules;
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp If you mean First and Second Editions: they weren't even close to being similar to each other (although Second Edition and Version 2.2 were somewhat similar to each other).


ColonelHardisson said:
I always assumed Dark Conspiracy used a watered down/retooled version of the rules I was familiar with in T:2000.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp The only version of Dark Conspiracy ever released by GDW used the Second Edition rules (DC was released in 1991, one year after Twilight: 2000 Second Edition was released). GDW was later planning to release a new version of DC using the Version 2.2 rules around 1994 or 1995, but that never materialized and the company closed up shop in early-1996. :(


-G
 

haiiro said:
but the game's believability, theme and atmosphere are unbeatable in that genre, IMO.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp GDW had a great reputation with their RPG's in this regard. They were to the RPG field what Red Storm Entertainment is to the computer-gaming field (particularly with their "Tom Clancy's" line of games). :)

haiiro said:
Based on what I've seen here so far (particularly Goodsport's writeup), I'd look around for a 2.0 or 2.2 rulebook rather than picking up the 1.0 reprint. I've actually been meaning to do just that for a little while now -- thanks for reminding me. :)
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Personally, this is the way I would go as well. :cool:


-G
 

I have very fond memories of being 18, locked up in a friend's Antebellum House, with no heat, in the dead of December, and learning the First Edition Twilight: 2000 rules. :)

I just may pick it up for the nostalgia. I loved those rules on Grenade Fishing. :D
 

Goodsport said:

If you mean First and Second Editions: they weren't even close to being similar to each other (although Second Edition and Version 2.2 were somewhat similar to each other).



So are you saying it was a completely different game? Or are you saying the systems are as dissimilar as 1e and 2e? I recall it as being the latter to me, but I haven't played either in years. Being completely different denotes to me differences as profound as those between, say, GURPS and D&D.
 


Twilight 2000 version 2.2 rules system was far and away the best of the three (version 1 is in the rule book you've linked to, then came a much-rewritten version 2, and then a step up to 2.2) - so if you can pick up the v2.2 rulebook on ebay (or wait until the reprint comes out - but I'd guess it will be a while) then you should also grab the v1 book you've linked to - as it is very easy to convert the 4 included scenarios to the 2.2 rules.

The core 2.2 rulebook is an excellent buy - lots of info on the world, equipment, NPCs, character generation, combat etc. They've really packed an awful lot of great info in there.

The game mechanics are very clean and there's plenty of scope for combat, character interaction (with all sorts of mauraders, local kingpins, frightened civilians etc), and general adventuring (kind of put you in mind of Mad Max, roaming the devestated country sides looking for pockets of refuge). The game has a strong military feel to it, but there's still plenty of scope for any form of play your players lean to.

As others have already said, TW2K is set in a post-apocalyptic world, where the war rages on and technological backup is rapidly falling apart. The setting is rather gritty but great fun, and the rulebook does an excellent job of setting the scene (fermenting alcohol for fuel for the few operational vehicles; disease rules are excellent; the mix of European cultures).

An alternative setting was presented in the Merc2000 sourcebook (plus the expansions - Merc2000 Gazetter and Special Ops) - which took on a more modern-day special forces theme. These books came with lots of floorplans for various settings - much like the Rainbow Six computer games (airport, ferry, bank etc).

I already had the Twilight v1 boxed set (as well as the v2 book and v2.2 boxed set) - but thought it still worth getting the reprint for the scenarios (which I didn't bother with first time round).
 

ColonelHardisson said:


So are you saying it was a completely different game? Or are you saying the systems are as dissimilar as 1e and 2e? I recall it as being the latter to me, but I haven't played either in years. Being completely different denotes to me differences as profound as those between, say, GURPS and D&D.

Not a COMPLETELY different game, but nowhere near as similar as AD&D 1e to AD&D 2e... not even as similar as AD&D 1e to D&D 3e.

I personally prefer 1e to 2.0 and 2.2 when it comes to T:2K, but I am the kind of person who loves the number-crunching of T:2K. There was something remarkable about T:2K 1e that made it new and fresh. It didn't use single bullets from a firearm as the basis for attack and damage rolls, but 'shots' of roughly 3 bullets. I believe it introduced the Coolness under Fire rules that have plauged or blessed (in one manifestation or another) various modern RPGs since. A lot of the game was about figuring out what to leave behind when a vehicle (unavoidably) broke down in the field on your way from Kalisz to Krakow.

It was the original, and will always hold a place in my heart.

I guess this love of mine for archaic game systems is also evident in my love of Top Secret over Top Secret / SI. Again, game play was streamlined in the second edition, but at a cost... I love the strange formulae, the archaic tables and the essoteric rules mongering that these old games required.
 

HellHound said:


Not a COMPLETELY different game, but nowhere near as similar as AD&D 1e to AD&D 2e... not even as similar as AD&D 1e to D&D 3e.


I guess it must be a subjective thing, because I know that the system for T:2k 1e seemed quite similar to Dark COnspiracy, at least in my opinion it did. 'Course, HackMaster seems a lot like 1e to me also... ;)
 

I remember trying out Twilight 2000, after having played 1st Edition D&D for years. 1st Edition player characters were quick and easy to create, whereas Twilight 2000 characters took quite some time, and the process was rather complex.

So, imagine our shock and dismay as those painstakingly-created Twilight 2000 characters met quick, untimely, and irrevocable deaths, due the game's more realistic combat and the powerful weaponry involved. (In comparison, it took essentially an Act of Congress to permanently kill a D&D player character.)

For example, a single 81mm mortar round managed to kill a third of the player character party, and seriously injure another third. (And in Twilight 2000, being seriously injured is a grave matter indeed, especially when you're out in the middle of nowhere, after the collapse of civilization.) And an 81mm mortar is considered to be light artillery!

Years later, I picked up the revised edition of Twilight 2000. (Which used rules similar those used in Dark Conspiracy.) I think the revised rules were an improvement. The revised rules were to Twilight 2000 what 2nd Edition was to D&D. The only reason I can imagine why they are re-printing the original rules and not the revised is because 1.) they do not want the copyright on the original rules to expire; and 2.) for nostalgia's and/or collector's sake.

I used the revised edition of Twilight 2000 to gamemaster a "Terminator" campaign, which took place shortly after the Great War between machines and mankind. The player characters started the campaign hiding out with their comrades and families in a small, underground complex that was abandoned during the holocaust.

The first game session, I had a "skinless" terminator-skeleton sneak into the complex via the sewers, which were so foul and flooded, no human being could've traversed them without SCUBA gear. (Not to mention their having to deal with a series of metal gratings, which the terminator simply ripped open.) The terminator stealthily pulled a little boy with him into one of the sewer mains. After snapping the boy's neck, the terminator mimicked his voice, acting like he had fallen into the sewer main and gotten stuck. When the player characters came to investigate, the terminator popped a smoke canister, then emerged from the sewer with his 7.62mm, multi-barreled minigun blazing away. The terminator gunned down three fourths of the men, women, and children in that complex before one of the player character managed to take it down with an anti-tank rocket launcher.

That one was a dark and grim "military" campaign, and Twilight 2000 was the right system for it.
 
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