[OT] Upon watching PJ butcher another's work.

[EricNoah]

The big deal about Tolkien, in contrast to ANY other writer of fantasy, is the depth he has created in his stories. No other author to date has creted a world that breathes such a sense of historical realism as Middle-Earth.
More interesting characters and plots have probably been written. But not one fantasy setting, be it from litterature or somewhere else, can stand up to the comparison with M-E.
The amount of background (mythology, history, language (history of),...) Tolkien has created to make this world come alive is a very big deal.

And this of course is why making a film of LotR is such a challenge. You literally can't do it all. So you must pick and choose. You decide to simplify Merry & Pippin's relationship/interaction with Treebeard, showing less of them in film 2 and saving them for more screen time in film 3. You decide to use the Faramir encounter not to showcase the Faramir of the book but instead to set up events for film 3 (Frodo's capture and the subsequent Nazgul attack will lead Sauron to believe the ring is on its way to Minas Tirith). You dig the Arwen stuff out of the appendix because it makes Aragorn's journey just that much more meaningful and it also addresses the issues of the passing of the elves.

Fortunately for me, I don't go into the theater thinking I can have it all --- I go in thinking I'm going to see something pretty darned close. When I think of all of the terrible choices that could have been made ("let's turn Legolas into a girl elf" or "let's turn Merry into a girl hobbit" or "let's try to squeeze these 3 books into one 2-hour movie") I feel grateful that such love, such care, such devotion have been poured into this trilogy. I just can't wait to see it all pay off in film 3.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Heck, I liked Gladiator. A lot. Braveheart, not so much.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

After watching the extra stuff on discs 3&4 of the extended version of FOTR last night I can't complain anymore about differences from the books. You CAN'T remake a book in a two hour flick. You take what is central to the book and build your movie around that. So if Faramir acting a little different is necessary for the MOVIE version then PJ was right to make changes. I don't think I'll ever go into a movie again thinking, "this better be like the book", I'm going to judge it on it's own merits.

TT was a great film, I had a blast watching it and I'll see it again this weekend. End of FTM's griping about changes.

 

[KenM]

I think the main thing with the changes to Faramir is we have to see what happens to him in RoTK.

 

[Assenpfeffer]

Fortunately for me, I don't go into the theater thinking I can have it all --- I go in thinking I'm going to see something pretty darned close. When I think of all of the terrible choices that could have been made ("let's turn Legolas into a girl elf" or "let's turn Merry into a girl hobbit" or "let's try to squeeze these 3 books into one 2-hour movie") I feel grateful that such love, such care, such devotion have been poured into this trilogy. I just can't wait to see it all pay off in film 3.

This ought to be tattooed onto some people's backsides.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Laughing on the outside...

"let's turn Legolas into a girl elf" or "let's turn Merry into a girl hobbit

Or "let's turn Glorfindel into a girl elf." Sheesh, imagine if they'd done something so, so egregiously "Hollywood" just to put a few more butts into theater seats...

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I think the main thing with the changes to Faramir is we have to see what happens to him in RoTK.

Y'know, this is porbably true of all the changes. It is a bit unfair to judge the full work when we've only seen 2/3ds of it.

Traditionally, the second movie/book of a trilogy is always the most difficult, as it's the transition from the introduction of the problem to the resolution of it, so it lacks a traditional beggining or end. From that standpoint I think PJ did quite well, as TTT stands quite well on its own.

 

[Piratecat]

Re: Laughing on the outside...

Or "let's turn Glorfindel into a girl elf."

Don't you mean Garfunkel?

Oh - oops, my mistake. I just always picture Glorfindel as Art Garfunkel, blond afro and everything. As you can tell, here in the KidPirateCthulhuCat household, he wasn't missed one bit.

Your point, however, is a delightful one. I'd argue that they combined characters to give Arwen something to actually do, though, rather than to attract people - especially since it annoyed some Tolkein purists. Let's face it - in the books, Arwen's biggest achievement is staying home and knitting a flag for Aragorn. Whee.

 

[Mulkhoran]

Just to throw into some support for Celebrim here,

Didn't ANYBODY notice that instead of being a noble king of Rohan, Theoden was reduced to a doddering, worthless old fool?

Instead of sending his people to safety in the caves, and going himself to Helm's Deep, he brings them with him to certain death?

Instead of dealing with Grima as a noble king of fantasy would, he drunkenly chases him down the palace steps, swinging his sword, until Aragorn stops him?

Do you people actually think the movie's "everybody sucks but Aragorn! Lookit the PROTAGONIST!" theme didn't detract from the storyline?

PJ pulled a bait-and-switch, point blank. The first movie was *lovingly* faithful to the original story, and as such, shoots down many of the "you HAVE to change this and that!" arguments. These aren't minor changes, they're fundamental, and most importantly totally unnecessary changes to the story.

If he wants his own movie, he should write it himself instead of riding the coattails of a great writer.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Re: Laughing on the outside...

Don't you mean Garfunkel?

Oh - oops, my mistake. I just always picture Glorfindel as Art Garfunkel, blond afro and everything. As you can tell, here in the KidPirateCthulhuCat household, he wasn't missed one bit.

Your point, however, is a delightful one. I'd argue that they combined characters to give Arwen something to actually do, though, rather than to attract people - especially since it annoyed some Tolkein purists. Let's face it - in the books, Arwen's biggest achievement is staying home and knitting a flag for Aragorn. Whee.

Yeah, I actually think what you're saying is correct; I was just being a bit flip. Glorfindel has always been one of my favorite characters, though, so even though I realize why he was cut, and having done film work I agree with doing it, it doesn't make it easier for me to see him cut.

I just wish they'd cast someone else as Arwen, but let's not go down that path...