My gripes: Gimli is a joke, the Jar-Jar of the film. He was my favorite character in LOTR and he was reduced to comic relief.
I thought Gimli bordered on falling into comic relief myself, BUT it seemed to flow naturally from a gruff but good-natured character who isn't full of his own self-importance. I could live with it, though I would have preferred the "comic relief" to have been cut - except for the "Toss Me" line - that was GREAT!
The meeting of the three hunters with the riders of Rohan. What happenned to the mention of Galadriel? Gimli and Eomer make a pact to postpone their fight until after Eomer has looked upon Galadriel. This is one of the defining moments of Gimli's character. Of course, if you're nothing more than a court jester, your character needs no defining.
Answer: Must cut movie down to three hours.
Faramir. They dropped the ball on this big time. Who the hell was that? Faramir was the most noble character in the whole damned book. Sam even said he had an air about him similar to that of Gandalf. In the movie he was more akin to Saruman. I can't believe that the noble Eowyn can ever fall for such a creep as Faramir.
Here, I agree with you.
The journey to Osgilath. Why add this? It serves absolutely no purpose but to further demean Faramirs character. Then the ringwraith. Sauruman knows who has the ring now, wtf was that all about?
I won't quote EN's response in another thread, but it may 'splain this fine... we need to cut down the time it takes to represent the fall of Osgiliath and why Sauron is attacking it and we need a clear reason for Sauron to fall on Gondor (he thinks the ring is there). More "streamlining" cuts for a quicker movie in RotK. We'll see if EN is right, but that is a plausible and acceptable reason.
Aragorn's fall from the cliff. Redundant. Served no purpose.
Not quite sure on this one - we need him "presumed dead" to help the development of the Eowyn/Aragorn romance angle. Would have preferred to have seen it done differently, but it worked.
The Elves at Helm's Deep. Why?
Agree.
Gollum. He started off fine, but at moments diressed into too much of a Jar-Jar.
WTF? I found Gollum to be by FAR the biggest piece of excellence in the entire movie. Where, exactly, does he become like Jar-Jar?
The sudden kung-fu-esque abilities of Arragorn, Gimli, and Legolas at Edoras. Again, should be axed.
*shrugs* I was indifferent on this one.
The disarmament at the gates. Gimli's axe was worth a king's ransom, The Bow of Galadriel, which has yet to be mentioned, and where is Anduril? This was a great scene that was cut for no purpose except to allow time to screw over Faramir and make Gimli fall down a couple more times.
Where is Anduril? For goodness' sake, I have thought this was incredibly obvious from the time they didn't re-forge Anduril in FotR. It seems to have been made more obvious with Galadriel and Elrond's conversation in TTT. The (to me) obvious answer is that Arwen will replace her brothers in RotK. She will show up for Aragorn with Anduril. We'll see if my hunch is right, but this was my hunch a year ago. And again, some things NEED to be cut, and this, to me, qualified as one of them.
Obviously you want the fifteen-hour edition, which you're not going to get. Erkenbrand's role was absorbed by Eomer for the same reason Glorfindel's role was absorbed by Arwen... in the movie, you positively MUST cut down the number of (minor) characters or you'll never get the story told. Remember that every character you introduce has to be developed a bit, and that takes time.
Why was Hama never mentioned by name, except in reference to his girly-like son?
See above. Cuts down on number of characters and thereby time. Something HAS to go.
Merryand Pippin. No mention of the Entwash. No mention of the way they tricked the orcs into believing they had the "precious."
My guess - extended edition. And for practical reasons, TIME!
The Ents had to be talked into attacking Saruman? Wtf? And they did more than tear down a dike. They redirected the course of an entire river, for christ's sake! And no Quickbeam.
Quickbeam - one less character, time considerations. I was disappointed that they had to be "tricked" into going after Sauruman.
Shadowfax. He just appears out of nowhere at Gandalf's call. Explain, please.
Gandalf whistles. Shadowfax comes. Never had a problem with this, especially when the book describes them as almost "soul mates" and Shadowfax as inequinely fast.
I'm sure there are many more discrepancies. Some of these could be disregarded as minor, but if they had cut the more stupid crap out, there would have been time for all of the proper characterization and then some.
Bah. Explain, exactly, what "Stupid Crap" could have gone. Then explain what you would have put in its place. I myself would have cut out the trip to Osgiliath and portrayed a wise/noble Faramir and would have cut out the Elvish reinforcements to Helm's Deep. Finally, I would have cut Legolas' "surfing" scene and a couple of the "short dwarf" jokes. That would have cut about 15 minutes. I would have added that time to Merry & Pippen's thread - a little more about their interaction with the orcs and goblins and a little more about the ent battle and the entwash.
But given the massive amount of ground that had to be covered, it was inevitable that some things had to go. It sounds to me like you're griping just because cuts had to be made and they happened to cut things you liked. That's fine, but admit it!
Yes, I would have loved a 15-hour version so that everything could be included, too... but only the SUPER hard-core fans have enough patience for that and that group of fans is not enough to recoup the cost of the movie.
Again, offer constructive criticism - don't say, "this sucked" without saying, "I would have preferred to see this instead." Then we can understand what your vision was and compare it to PJ's. One last time, if you want something added, tell me what you're willing to cut. You seem to want to cut very little and add a lot... and there just flat simply ISN'T enough time in 3 hours.
My initial reaction was that TTT was not quite as good as FotR - I thought TTT was about a B+ with FotR earning an A+. But I have only a midnight showing where I was admittedly fatigued to base that on, and reserve the right to change my opinion.
--The Sigil
