[OT] Yet another martial arts help thread.....so, please help!!

zdanboy,

Greetings again sir. You mentioned not limiting ourselves to the styles you mentioned when recommending what to train with next, I only limit the choices due to the practicallity of your situation. If you can't find a school close enough to train at, your pretty well stuck with what is there in town.

Onto kickboxing. Ok, some have recomended it, and I believe I have in the last thread where you inquired what to train in before. I'll start out with the warnings. If your not willing to put up with heavy and hard contact, avoid kickboxing like the plague. It combines the science of boxing, with all the elusive foot work, body torque and movement, with the basic power kicks from Asian martial arts. The training can be brutal, and painful at times, with high degrees of conditioning drills to withstand contact, cardiovascular{SP} work plenty of ab training. What you do though, like Judo, is just the way you would use it in an actual encounter. There is light sparring to build technique and skill, and there is full contact sparring to see how much you learned from the slower, lighter contact. In a good school you'll learn to punch, digging in from the toes up and firing quick jabs as both offense and defense. Head and body movement will be taught so that you can avoid most punches and become a harder target to hit. And you'll learn a very important skill of body shifting to minimize the damage of hits that do land. Its a fact that you won't get missed every time, no matter how good your evasions skills. Because of this learning how to eat a shot and take the least damage from it is an essential skill to have in a fight. So no, I can't say many bad things about kickboxing. On the down side though, it punishes th body if you aren't very health concious and keep things balanced out with diet, weight training and smart training, ie. don't hurt yourself more than you have to and quit when it hurts too much, its a sign from the body that something isn't right. Also, at some point, you'll be too old to carry on with the heavy contact. Then your down to switching arts, stopping training, or becoming a coach. Even the Greats like Bill Wallace and Joe Lewis admit that it takes more to beat those young pups once you get a few years on you.

I'm running short of time, but if you have any more questions, let me know and I'll try to post later tonight. May even throw in some good points for traditional Okinawan arts, which stood me in good sted when I trained with a kickboxer for a while.

Thanks,
Kail
 

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Fourecks said:
Ok, this is gonna sound totally hypocritical because of what I've said in another thread but...

I like kick-boxing and boxing. If you're talking about the American-style competition kick-boxing, then that's the one I like.

Doesn't sound hypocritical to me. A good kickboxing school can teach you a lot about distance, give you better endurance and punishment-taking capacity, and teach you how to punc hard.

What I would think hard about in terms of using kickboxing on the street is the whole "punching safely" deal. Mike Tyson broke his hand punching a guy in a fight outside a bar -- and he might be a reprehensible human being, but at the time, he was a pretty darn good boxer. Don't get so used to punching with gloves on that you do stupid punches on the street and break your hand.

-Tacky
 


mythago said:


Do you mean Krav Maga? That was developed for and is used by the IDF.

<http://www.kravmaga.com/>
Sounds like an excellent martial art... pity their website skillz $U><0R :D

I can't install flash on this browser and they don't provide a non-flash alternative so I can't get past the first page... stupid website designers...
 


Back again! You would think buying a washer and dryer and hauling them back home would take less time.;)

Onto more martial maddness. Krav Maga, you get the basics from the site, and Black Belt magizine did two articals on it recently, I can get the issue numbers for those interested, heck for shipping costs I'd mail you the issues. Anyway, back to what KM is from what little I know. Stylistically its both compact and diverse. It atempts to cover all ranges of combat and weapon defense/disarms, including against firearms, into an effecient format that uses gross motor reactions at the basic levels. Starting out it will resemble kickboxing at a basic level, though I very much doubt the tools/weapons will be as highly developed as kickboxers would have them be, later it progresses into takedowns, and grappling with an ephasis on quickly disabling attackers. Its ment to be nasty and effective to the core. Draw backs, and this is theory gathered from what the system entails, would be a difficulty in practicing without at least one partner, difficulty in finding solid training {Some unscrupulous people take a seminar in a style and then hang their shingle advertising that they teach the style}. Because of the violent premis of the style, and the implied high level physical threat it is responding to, you will suffer some of the same draw backs of other traditional, and "combat oriented" systems, you can't really do what they are teaching you. That is to say that you can't apply the techniques full force and carry through with the full motion without seriously injuring a training partner. This is a critism leveled at many traditional martial arts, but it is equally true of those espousing "true self-defense". You can't really do the knee colapsing, eye-gouging movements safely in either format, no matter how real you try to make the training, your still faking it and pulling punches.

zdanboy, if your interested in the karate form, I could post a few things to look for and expect out of a good traditional school. Don't be totally sold on the "traditional karate/kung fu doesn't work" lines. They tend to fall into a few broad catigories, and I don't mean to offend: Embittered, they didn't get wha they expected or when they expect it from the art. It wasn't a quick fix. Short Changed, they didn't really get a good school, and after the bad expierence moved on without searching out better quality instruction, or even realizing until much later that they were shafted. Selling Something, this one is trying to peddle off another system of some sort, or a personal fighting philosophy, that they claim to be the ultimate for one reason or another. Many traditional styles have stood the test of time and challenge. Needless to say, I've had very good experiences out of a traditional style of karate that has stood up when squared against other forms and fighters, running oposite of what folks like Fourecks experienced. For those folks, I am sorry things didn't work out for you with traditional training, I really wish they had. However, it takes all kinds of styles and people to make the world go round and no style is perfect, execpt for our own favorites.

That's it for the night. Hopefully I can find the sites I need for a thread soon and I'll have something role playing related to add to the boards.
{edited for spelling/typos and clairity, which I still may not have achieved}
Kail
 
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You can't really do the knee colapsing, eye-gouging movements safely in either format, no matter how real you try to make the training, your still faking it and pulling punches.

I know that there are self-defense courses for women...can't think of the name now...where the "sparring partner" is a guy in a full-body suit of padded armor, so that you CAN use full-force attacks. These are short-term classes, though; I'd think it would be pretty hard to have that kind of sparring regularly.
 

Actually your not going to get full contact out of the "redman" suits used in most of those sorts of defense classes. Your still not able to get full follow through on a joint manipulation/breaks and you will get a very unrealistic body responce from a strike. If your that padded up and I strike, full force mind you, to the stomach, you may stagger under the force of the blow, but your body won't cant/reflexively come forward the way it would from an unarmored target. That sort of armor, and newer, more stream-line versions can help, but they are generally prohibitively expensive for individuals, and most schools, to buy and have some of the same draw backs as the older "redman". Still can't go full out against an elbow/knee/wrist joint, can't crank the neck all the way, gouge the eyes or eye rank to move the head and they still stiffle the reaction of the body to blows. Aside from that, working in them can provide a very false sense of security. If a full on shot doesn't hurt in the armor, or hurts very little, it won't overly concern you in a real situation. That lack of concern will get you hit hard without proper respect for how your body will react. In some ways its worse than non-contact sparring, you don't respect the power of a hit nearly as much as you should because you haven't really experienced.

Better, maybe, but definately not a cure for the trouble. Until we get fully functional VR or disposable, afordable combat training androids, there is no really good answer.

Kail
 

Kail: Big thanx to you!!! You really helped me with the kickboxing analysis....i now have a hard time deciding between kickboxing, karate and jiu-jitsu....decisions, decisions....

As said I love the the lack of complex in kickboxing. You have not too many techniques and you can learn them pretty quickly, and then sped time on mastering those that suit you....

Again Kail if you can further help me........it now boils down to:

Kickboxing vs some traditional martial art (be it kung fu, karate or some such) vs jiu-jitsu.....

Help will be much appreciated!!! (not only from Kail)
 

If you've gotten in some practice, you probably already know what kinds of things will make you feel comfortable.

My advice to you is to spend a month or so and check the different places out. No amount of research or discussion about what a particular style is like will prepare you for what actually goes on once you walk in the door.

Every instructor is a little bit different, and every class has different dynamics. Most schools should offer you a trial of some kind - take them up on the offer. See if they will let you attend a practice free of charge to see if you like what they offer. I've never seen a place that didn't.

If you encounter one, turn around and walk out. It says something about the school's attitude if they won't let you try it out to see if it's compatible with you.
 

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