Our KOTS TPK (Warning: KOTS spoiler info)

[Sebastrd]

Anyways, the whole party got captured, except for the gnome ranger who made good use of his Invisibility and ran away. This was a great setup for an escape scene with a skill challenge, which went very, very well. They got to roleplay with Irontooth, found out a few pieces of information, and then slaughtered the only-slightly-reinforced remnants of the kobold army.

I'm really curious about how you handled this. My group is about to go through the same thing, and I'm not quite sure how to run it.

 

[Jack99]

I am not sure I see the point regarding it reminding you of a videogame, but hey, if that's what you feel, fair enough.

However, it is meant to be very hard. IIRC it is a level +4 fight, meant to be very lethal, bordering on TPK. After reading about 7 threads and 800 posts of debate on this subject since the beginning of June, I would say that the designers managed to achieve what they went for. Sure, some well-balanced, smart (lucky) groups will win the fight without deaths, but most will struggle, if not wipe on him.

Now, is this how encounters at the beginning of modules ought to be? Well, some hate it, while some like it. It's not like there is a universal right and wrong when it comes to designing adventures.

Cheers

 

[yagyuninja]

My players convinced some kobolds from outside the waterfall to help them depose their evil leader. The kobolds lured the dragonshields and wyrmpriest outside and the party blindsided them (my dragonshields looked up to irontooth, but the minions were the unfortunate underlings). After that, they got most of the inside minions to turn on Irontooth and his (stupid) loyal skirmisher buddies. Many kobold minions died that day at the hands of Skirmishers and the evil Irontooth, but the party wiped the floor with IT. The kobolds agreed to leave the king's road and winterhaven alone (not to say they won't renege on this promise ), and they worked on rebuilding their home. The players brought IT's head and Kalarel's note back with them to winterhaven.

 

[Thanee]

Irontooth and his draconic minions *almost* wiped out the party... it was a 20 on the Death Saving Throw from the Cleric that turned it from TPK to victory. Still, two PCs died there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[ExploderWizard]

I am not sure I see the point regarding it reminding you of a videogame, but hey, if that's what you feel, fair enough.

Cheers

Its "gotcha" factor that is videogamy. Its that in order to have a good chance to overcome the challenge one needs to experience it first, and try again with the the only differing factor possibly being that the Players know what can happen and plan accordingly. A new group of characters wouldn't have any knowledge of what was going to happen and would react perhaps much as the first did. Out of character knowledge is needed to stand a decent chance of victory. I enjoy a tactical game for combat but those tactics should be based on the knowledge of the adventurers and not board game tactics based on game rules. For that I can play warhammer.

 

[LostSoul]

You know, you could have rolled Nature or whatever to determine what powers Irontooth had.

Because maybe the characters know while the players don't.

 

[Obryn]

I'm really curious about how you handled this. My group is about to go through the same thing, and I'm not quite sure how to run it.

Well, the main thing to remember is that people pick what happens when they drop someone to 0 hp - unconsciousness, death, etc.

Anyway, as I saw it, the kobolds have very little reason to kill a group of adventurers and lots of reasons to capture them.

sblocked just in case...
[sblock]
(1) They could sell the party to the Bloodreavers. This helps introduce that little plot element, and makes sense - live slaves are way more valuable than dead adventurers.

(2) They could give the party to Kalarel, who presumably needs as many live sacrifices as he can find for his ritual.
[/sblock]

Either way, it's perfectly logical for an overconfident goblin.

-O

 

[Jack99]

Its "gotcha" factor that is videogamy. Its that in order to have a good chance to overcome the challenge one needs to experience it first, and try again with the the only differing factor possibly being that the Players know what can happen and plan accordingly. A new group of characters wouldn't have any knowledge of what was going to happen and would react perhaps much as the first did. Out of character knowledge is needed to stand a decent chance of victory. I enjoy a tactical game for combat but those tactics should be based on the knowledge of the adventurers and not board game tactics based on game rules. For that I can play warhammer.

What you call "gotcha" factor, I call old-school sandbox style. It's a matter of style I guess, but believe it or not, many DMs often incorporate encounters that are very hard for players to win, just to teach them that they live in a dangerous organic world, and not playing a videogame, where everything is tailored to them. So, there you have it. What means videogame to you, means the exact opposite to me.

Cheers though