D&D 5E Out of the Abyss OOC

[Yavathol]

Try again?
[roll0]

Works this time!

 

[CanadienneBacon]

PHB p203 says "once a spell is cast, it's effects aren't limited by its range, unless the spell description says otherwise"

I had the same conundrum when deciding how to adjudicate Kamael's movement taking him out of range of earthen grasp. Earthen grasp has a range of 30'. When Kamael moved to M6, that put him well outside of the spell's 30' range. PHB 202, "Range," provides, "The target of a spell must be within the spell's range." When Kamael relocated to M6, Kuo-toa 7 was no longer in range of either the target or the earthen hand. The spell description for earthen hand provides, "As an action, you can cause the hand to reach for a different creature or to move to a different unoccupied space within range. The hand releases a restrained target if you do either." Holistically, when taken together, I read the PHB entry on Range and the spell description to mean that the caster has to expend an Action to move the earthen hand. If he doesn't do so, and then moves out of range while leaving the hand hanging behind (so to speak), the spell ends.

We've got some options. We could roll with what I posted in the IC, which is that the caster needs to expend an Action to move the earthen hand before he himself moves out of range. Or we could say that the spell winks out of existence if the caster moves out of range of the earthen hand (this is what I went with). Or we could say that the hand lets go of its current target and moves spontaneously to be within range of the caster...kind of like a dog following a master. I admit I considered the latter, but opted not to do so for the reason that having the hand move spontaneously is far too open to DM interpretation (where should I have the hand go when the player neglected to mention either the hand's movement or the expenditure of an Action to move the hand), and seems to me to be giving the player a freebie Action that he wouldn't normally be entitled to.

That said, I'm open to input. How did you imagine it ought to go?

 

[CanadienneBacon]

Regarding shield, its up to you how we adapt the rule for PBP - I believe technically I would decide before knowing the roll, so I'm happy to say it has been cast & wasted. Obviously if you're willing to let me decide after seeing the roll then great, that saves me a spell slot.

Were we at a tabletop, you'd know the attack roll result at a minimum. I don't, however, bifurcate attack and damage rolls in my PbP games (too inefficient). By specifying a protocol for when shield activates, we avoid holding up the IC or having to retcon.

I'm happy to say shield doesn't go off this round, but now that everyone is 4th level, I think you ought to consider tweaking the default rule you stipulated (shield activates when Kamael is hit and suffers 5 or more hp damage). Do you want to up that to 7 hp, 10 hp, XX hp? Leave it the same?

Let me know.

 

[Yavathol]

Er, you create the hand within range, after which it's effects aren't limited by range, ie forget about range.

As an action, you can move the hand, but I haven't done that, so it just stays where it is!

Since the spell only specifies the range in the description with respect to moving the hand, the squeezing for damage and reaching for a different creature (nb not target) do not depend on range or clear path.

If you think thats too powerful, I could be persuaded that line of sight is needed for squeezing or reaching for a different creature

 

[Yavathol]

Can we leave shield at 5 hp for now, thanks - Kamael still doesn't have that many hit points!

 

[CanadienneBacon]

Can we leave shield at 5 hp for now, thanks - Kamael still doesn't have that many hit points!

5 hp is good, no problem. I think you should consider a rider that shield activates only when it can actually do some good; i.e., when the attacker hits an AC of 20 or lower, or when the attack is from magic missiles. That way, you don't waste a spell slot on shield when the attacker hits AC 21 or higher.

 

[Yavathol]

5 hp is good, no problem. I think you should consider a rider that shield activates only when it can actually do some good; i.e., when the attacker hits an AC of 20 or lower, or when the attack is from magic missiles. That way, you don't waste a spell slot on shield when the attacker hits AC 21 or higher.

Yes please, that sounds great!

 

[CanadienneBacon]

Er, you create the hand within range, after which it's effects aren't limited by range, ie forget about range.

That's expressly contrary to the spell description, which provides that "As an action, you can cause the hand to reach for a different creature or to move to a different unoccupied space within range." My read is that you've got to be within 30' of the hand to be able to direct it to squeeze or to move it (which requires an Action in either case). I don't think the hand would continue to squeeze a target if the caster moved out of range. The question I have, however, is what happens to the hand once the caster moves beyond the spell's range...does the hand vanish, does it move of its own accord, or does it do something else? We don't seem to have any guidance from the spell description.

I'll take another look in the morning when I'm fresh. Others should feel welcome to weigh in, too.

 

[Yavathol]

If the hand were to vanish when the caster goes out of range then that would be explicitly stated in the spell description. The normal rules for duration apply after the spell is cast.

Wrt secondary effects, I believe it would be worded as, "as an action, when you are within range, you can cause the hand to squeeze" or "as an action, when you are within range, you can cause the hand to reach for a different creature or move the hand to a different square within range". But it doesn't say that, it only specifies range for the second clause As I said, it's fine if you think thats too much for a second level spell.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

You've prompted a really great question, [MENTION=33284]Yavathol[/MENTION], so I went ahead and posed it in the 5e forum: Maximillian's earthen grasp and spell range. I don't want to cut you out of that conversation, so please consider hopping over there and either following along or providing input as you see fit. It's not a question I've come across before, so I'm pleased to be able to raise it.