D&D 5E (2024) Pact Of Chain Warlock is really powerful now.

[Ancalagon]

I think the real power of PotC is that you can now have more than one pact! If you wanted to be a "sword warlock" in the past, it usually meant pact of the blade. Now you can do both. So the "opportunity cost" has been reduced.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think the real power of PotC is that you can now have more than one pact! If you wanted to be a "sword warlock" in the past, it usually meant pact of the blade. Now you can do both. So the "opportunity cost" has been reduced.

I do have a hard time picturing myself playing a warlock that doesn’t take all three pact boons now. Not for powergaming reasons, but because if I’m playing a witch and I have the option to take a special familiar, a book of shadows, and a souped-up athame, of course I’m going to take all of those options!

 

[Zardnaar]

I think the real power of PotC is that you can now have more than one pact! If you wanted to be a "sword warlock" in the past, it usually meant pact of the blade. Now you can do both. So the "opportunity cost" has been reduced.

Except you probably don't have enough invocations to be good at each one.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Except you probably don't have enough invocations to be good at each one.

Having played a Celestial Bladelock up to like...I think it was level 12?

You can do more than one, but Blade is the most hungry of the lot, so it eats up a lot of space. You can basically get one other thing alongside Blade: I went for "Tome + utility stuff". You could easily have done Chain instead.

 

[Zardnaar]

Having played a Celestial Bladelock up to like...I think it was level 12?

You can do more than one, but Blade is the most hungry of the lot, so it eats up a lot of space. You can basically get one other thing alongside Blade: I went for "Tome + utility stuff". You could easily have done Chain instead.

Yeah I would do chain and tome.

I'm not a fan of Pact of the Blade. Wifes playing one. It is invocation heavy and you're basically a bad Paladin. Tomes great for utility especially early on.

Class kinda seems to top out at level 11/12 as well. And its front loaded.

Im not even convinced Pact of Anything is the best approach. pact of all/lots the origin feats for example is very good. Think I would double down on control and eh on striker now.

 

[mellored]

Class kinda seems to top out at level 11/12 as well. And its front loaded.

Agreed.

But it still multiclasses well after that.

Sorcerer for quicken Eldritch Blast.
Paladin or Fighter for armor and masteries.
Barbarian for Rage + Armor of Agathys.
Rogue for sneak attack and skills.
Bard for support.

 

[Zardnaar]

Agreed.

But it still multiclasses well after that.

Sorcerer for quicken Eldritch Blast.
Paladin or Fighter for armor and masteries.
Barbarian for Rage + Armor of Agathys.
Rogue for sneak attack and skills.
Bard for support.

Yeah I think my wife is eyeing up Paladin. Game will probably finish at 12, 13 max. She liked her 3rd 5th level spell slot at 11 but mystic arcanum isn't to exciting for her (I think its fine).

Bladelock at least is good in theory but I keep thinking I would rather have a lvl 10 or 11 Paladin. I don't think I would do bladelock myself unless an OP weapon dropped early.

 

[mellored]

Yeah I think my wife is eyeing up Paladin. Game will probably finish at 12, 13 max. She liked her 3rd 5th level spell slot at 11 but mystic arcanum isn't to exciting for her (I think its fine).

Bladelock at least is good in theory but I keep thinking I would rather have a lvl 10 or 11 Paladin. I don't think I would do bladelock myself unless an OP weapon dropped early.

Bladelock is best at 12, when you can get a 3rd attack and heavy weapon master (assuming you got 20 Cha first).
Which is better than Paladin 11.
Though I would still dip Paladin or Fighter 1 first to get armor.

But then there's nothing past that until you hit. Foresight at 17.

I could maybe see going 13 for forcecage, but only if your DM provides a lot of ruby dust.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yeah I would do chain and tome.

I'm not a fan of Pact of the Blade. Wifes playing one. It is invocation heavy and you're basically a bad Paladin. Tomes great for utility especially early on.

Whereas for me, you're basically a flexible Paladin, with full spellcasting. Especially since I played using the packet 7 rules, so they hadn't added the ridiculous strength requirement to heavy weapons yet. A greatsword of light dealing 3d6+5 radiant damage per hit with 2x attacks, plus the best can trip in the game for range, meant that while I was slightly squishy, I was incredibly versatile. Had I dipped Fighter, it would have been even better, with Graze damage and medium armor.

Class kinda seems to top out at level 11/12 as well. And its front loaded.

I disagree. That's ignoring the potency of high level spells.

Im not even convinced Pact of Anything is the best approach. pact of all/lots the origin feats for example is very good. Think I would double down on control and eh on striker now.

I...would disagree with this notion. There are definitely useful things. There is the "perfect infiltrator" package (Actor feat + One with Shadows + Master of Myriad Forms + Devil's Sight, maybe Mask of Many Faces for instant clothing changes), which is super useful utility if sneaking around or impersonation is helpful to you, but otherwise most of the other invocations are at best merely pretty decent.

Actor doesn't use up anything but a Cha bump. Take Blade at 1st, Agonizing and Devil's Sight at 2nd, One with Shadows and Thirsting Blade at 5th. You are now and amazing scout, and can hold your own in any fight. Start with a 1st level Fighter dip if you're worried about survival (since that also gets you Con save proficiency, which is better than Eldritch Mind anyway). Medium armor + 14 Dex is a completely reliable baseline.

If you start with 17 Cha/15 Dex via your background, you can get 18 Cha at level 4 via Actor, 16 Dex at level 8 via Medium Armor Master, 18+2=20 Cha at level 12, and finally GWM at level 16. Delay those by one level to start from Fighter 1, and you get all of that (one level later, of course) + Con save prof, Second Wind, Great Weapon Fighting style, and the Graze mastery. On the invocation side, as noted, Blade Pact (1), Agonizing Blast/Devil's Sight (2), One with Shadows/Thirsting Blade (5), Master of Many Forms (7), Lifedrinker (9), Devouring Blade (12). Then the last two invocations are free rein, either continue beefing up your offense or pick up some additional utility. If you don't care about the infiltration side, you can drop Master of Many Forms and thus go for some other utility, such as Tome or Chain, or picking up an extra Origin Feat if you really want one of them (Tough could be a good choice for some extra HP.)

It is, I admit, a slightly slow burn--but it works, and you're still continuously getting good things all the way up through Warlock 16 for that final feat. Couple the above with specifically having a Celestial patron and getting Skilled as your Origin Feat (Charlatan is a great choice!), and you have a character that is a Renaissance adept: pretty good at healing, melee damage, ranged damage, and a few skills of preference, and objectively amazing at infiltration/scouting. Those free party-wide THP you get from Celestial Warlock 10 make a pretty big difference too--I can definitely say I noticed them when I played.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

I have found 5e Warlocks boring; but maybe my next 5e24 character will be a chainlock.