D&D 5E Pact of the Blade / Bladelock, looking for thoughts

[JackOfAllTirades]

My own personal house rule:

When attacking with your pact blade, you use Charisma instead of the usual ability score.

It's worth noting that Druids require a cantrip (Shillelagh) to gain an ability equivalent to this. And TomeLocks can borrow this ability, but it still requires taking the Druid cantrip.

I think it's a great idea for BladeLocks, and it won't break the game, but (IMHO) it probably should require either a cantrip or an invocation.

 

[Mephista]

It's worth noting that Druids require a cantrip (Shillelagh) to gain an ability equivalent to this. And TomeLocks can borrow this ability, but it still requires taking the Druid cantrip.

I think it's a great idea for BladeLocks, and it won't break the game, but (IMHO) it probably should require either a cantrip or an invocation.

You're already getting a magical weapon that you summon with an action. How is that NOT already an act of magic?

 

[Moorcrys]

I give pact of the blade warlocks access to medium armor and shields and an extra attack at 5th (no extra attack invocation). There's no multiclassing in my games, and that seems to have worked out just right for us for a 20-level strength-based hexblade. It's only been implemented for a few levels though so I can't vouch for the entire progression. I'd worry that adding anything more will make them too good. They have a lot of tricks up their sleeves.

Success with the class also has a bit to do with the DM making sure the party can get reasonable access to short rests - that goes a long way with warlocks in general.

 

[Klaus]

It's worth noting that Druids require a cantrip (Shillelagh) to gain an ability equivalent to this. And TomeLocks can borrow this ability, but it still requires taking the Druid cantrip.

I think it's a great idea for BladeLocks, and it won't break the game, but (IMHO) it probably should require either a cantrip or an invocation.

I agree that it needs an investment, but I think choosing the Pact of the Blade is investment enough, otherwise it's really underwhelming (specially when compared to the 4e Hexblade).

 

[Ashrym]

It may not be necessary, but the reason I like it is that 1.) it fits the flavor of Pact of the Blade, and 2.) Pact Weapon is IMO really weak already. If you're getting armor via fighter multiclassing already, you've got proficiency with all weapons, so all Pact Weapon gives you in that case is a "summon weapon" ability that takes a full action, which is pretty meh. I'd flavor Pact Weapon as "your patron imbues you with a weapon and martial knowledge" and give the medium armor proficiency and pact weapon together in order to obviate the need for multiclassing.

The other two ways to get medium armor are 1.) variant human, and 2.) mountain dwarf. Mountain dwarves don't get shield proficiency BTW.

Mountain dwarf doesn't grant shields but that doesn't matter if a person is using a two handed weapon like a polearm.

In the MC example pact blade grants a summonable magical weapon and allows adding thirsting blade and lifedrinker. The only overlap is in proficiency with the weapon.

To look at the flip side of the coin, the only thing tome gives is rituals and extra cantrips, and chain only gives a good scout. Both of those are utility instead of damage. Blade does give more damage with feats and isn't a concern without feats or multiclassing until 17th level on a 4th attack from the blast.

Other warlocks generally spend 2 invocations on eldritch blast and a feat is needed to avoid the damage cut from disadvantaged attacks that come up, and DEX plus CON is important for them as well; they are susceptible to attacks from range or after opponents close to melee. Range just isn't the strong protection people sometimes make it out to be.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

My own personal house rule:

When attacking with your pact blade, you use Charisma instead of the usual ability score.

It's worth noting that Druids require a cantrip (Shillelagh) to gain an ability equivalent to this. And TomeLocks can borrow this ability, but it still requires taking the Druid cantrip.

I think it's a great idea for BladeLocks, and it won't break the game, but (IMHO) it probably should require either a cantrip or an invocation.

You're already getting a magical weapon that you summon with an action. How is that NOT already an act of magic?

The issue is which ability score the Warlock gets to use for attacks/damage when wielding the pact blade. Changing it to CHA would reduce dependency on other ability scores (STR/DEX), and make the subclass more viable overall. My position is that this is big enough benefit that it shouldn't be granted "for free" and it's worth a minor investment.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Other warlocks generally spend 2 invocations on eldritch blast and a feat is needed to avoid the damage cut from disadvantaged attacks that come up, and DEX plus CON is important for them as well; they are susceptible to attacks from range or after opponents close to melee. Range just isn't the strong protection people sometimes make it out to be.

This statement interests me. Can you expand on your claims? Are you pointing out that you can't always fight at range (totally true, especially since many DMs don't seem to know how big 20' is in real life)? Or are you making a stronger claim?

Most of the time when I see a ranged guy get into trouble in 5E, it's because 1.) he boxed himself in somehow, 2.) he's facing a mob so big that he can't kill them faster than they can close the distance by Dashing, 3.) the party is on offense in close quarters, and he got surprised. #1 and #3 are usually related. #2 usually means the encounter is way beyond Deadly.

 

[Klaus]

The issue is which ability score the Warlock gets to use for attacks/damage when wielding the pact blade. Changing it to CHA would reduce dependency on other ability scores (STR/DEX), and make the subclass more viable overall. My position is that this is big enough benefit that it shouldn't be granted "for free" and it's worth a minor investment.

IMHO, choosing the Pact of the Blade is already investment enough. Being able to attack with the pact blade using CHA is about on par with getting two at-will cantrips + Ritual Casting (Pact of the Tome) or getting an improved familiar (Pact of the Chain).

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

You're already getting a magical weapon that you summon with an action. How is that NOT already an act of magic?

It's worth noting that Druids require a cantrip (Shillelagh) to gain an ability equivalent to this. And TomeLocks can borrow this ability, but it still requires taking the Druid cantrip.

I think it's a great idea for BladeLocks, and it won't break the game, but (IMHO) it probably should require either a cantrip or an invocation.

My own personal house rule:

When attacking with your pact blade, you use Charisma instead of the usual ability score.

IMHO, choosing the Pact of the Blade is already investment enough. Being able to attack with the pact blade using CHA is about on par with getting two at-will cantrips + Ritual Casting (Pact of the Tome) or getting an improved familiar (Pact of the Chain).

Well, Pact of the Blade effectively grants proficiency with Martial melee weapons, and you get a magical weapon too, which may take any form you chose, and cannot be stolen. (If that happens, you just summon it back.) Are you not impressed?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Well, Pact of the Blade effectively grants proficiency with Martial melee weapons, and you get a magical weapon too, which may take any form you chose, and cannot be stolen. (If that happens, you just summon it back.) Are you not impressed?

It's a pretty weak magical weapon (+0). It's good for killing lycanthropes of course, and intellect devourers and I think maybe Gricks, but it's more of a niche thing compared to a Paladin's Sacred Weapon, an Eldritch Knight's Magic Weapon, or a regular warlock's Eldritch Blast.