D&D 5E (2024) Pact of the Chain + Nick Mastery

[I'm A Banana]

I'm checking to see if there's an issue with my logic on the RAW/RAI interpretation here.

Warlock with Pact of the Chain. Pact of the Chain reads...

Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack of its own with its Reaction.

Wielding a weapon with Nick. Nick reads...

When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.

And Light property is...

When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don't add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage unless that modifier is negative.

Here's what that suggests to me:

• I'm a warlock with who can use weapon masteries and martial weapons (Ftr 1/Wlk 1 in this case). I've got a scimitar, and Pact of the Chain, and my imp familiar.
• I use the Attack action to attack with my Scimitar.
• As part of the Attack action, I get to make another attack (with a different Light weapon).
• I can forgo that attack to let my Imp make an attack.

RAW, this looks legit to me, if a little niche (and almost certainly not optimized, though potent at level 2). Does it actually hold up? Would you be kosher with this in your game?

 

[Zardnaar]

Looks fine to me. Foregoing the attack doesnt negate the attack action.

Attack action still happens via per that means you can use nick. Hell you can throw in hex as well

RAW seems clear.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I would say no. The specificity of Nick overrides the general of Pact of the Chain. Nick HAS to be an attack with a light weapon. You also cant sub the nick attack out for a cantrip from Valor bard.

 

[Zardnaar]

I would say no. The specificity of Nick overrides the general of Pact of the Chain. Nick HAS to be an attack with a light weapon. You also cant sub the nick attack out for a cantrip from Valor bard.

That's not what theyre claiming.

You use the attack action to have an attack.

Attack action triggers nick. You can have an off hand attack. Thos grabs you an attack as part of the attack action.

You forgo an attack to enable your pet. It doesnt specify what attack. You forgo one of your own attacks made with that attack action.

Not a fan of it but RAW it works it seems. EK can replace the nick attack with a cantrip it seems

Assuming OP pasted the exact words.

 

[TerraDave]

It works if your familiar is a dagger.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

That's not what theyre claiming.

You use the attack action to have an attack.

Attack action triggers nick. You can have an off hand attack. Thos grabs you an attack as part of the attack action.

You forgo an attack to enable your pet. It doesnt specify what attack. You forgo one of your own attacks made with that attack action.

Not a fan of it but RAW it works it seems. EK can replace the nick attack with a cantrip it seems

Assuming OP pasted the exact words.

You have to attack with the main hand to get the off hand. If you order your pet, you don't get the Nick attack because you aren't triggering Nick by attacking with the weapon. The Nick attack can only be used for the Nick weapon. Holding a scimitar doesn't let you yell at the imp faster.

It comes online with extra attack, but you still sacrifice a main hand is how I'd rule it.

Chain is already outdamaging any regular low level attack anyways.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The specificity of Nick overrides the general of Pact of the Chain.

You have to attack with the main hand to get the off hand. If you order your pet, you don't get the Nick attack because you aren't triggering Nick by attacking with the weapon. The Nick attack can only be used for the Nick weapon.

Hm...Nick just changes the action, though. The attack is granted through the Light property, not the Nick property. There's no requirement to use a Nick weapon for the granted attack (you could attack with a Scimitar and then use a Shortsword or a Hand Crossbow for your granted attack just fine, for instance).

Generally, the Light property lets you make another attack with a different Light weapon as a Bonus action.
Specifically, Nick lets you do that as part of the Attack action.
Specifically, Pact of the Chain lets you swap out attacks made as part of the Attack action for a familiar attack.

Pact of the Chain doesn't seem to care about the source or conditions on those attacks, just the action used to do it. If I polymorphed into a creature with Multiattack, I could also swap out a Multiattack for a familiar attack, it seems.

Compare to Valor bard, which seems to specify that you need to swap out an attack from the Extra Attacks feature:

You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

In addition, you can cast one of your cantrips that has a casting time of an action in place of one of those attacks.

("those" attacks meaning your attacks from this feature)

EK uses the same swap language as Pact of the Chain, and would also seem to allow cantrips in place of Light-property attacks used with Nick

When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of the attacks with a casting of one of your Wizard cantrips that has a casting time of an action.

 

[TheSword]

Yeah Light Weapon clearly says you must make an attack with another light weapon to get the extra attack. It also says you must attack with a light weapon to trigger the whole routine as well. A familiar attacking isn’t using another light weapon. So you can’t use either attack for the familiar and benefit from Nick.

 

[TheSword]

Hm...Nick just changes the action, though. The attack is granted through the Light property, not the Nick property. There's no requirement to use a Nick weapon for the granted attack (you could attack with a Scimitar and then use a Shortsword or a Hand Crossbow for your granted attack just fine, for instance).

Generally, the Light property lets you make another attack with a different Light weapon as a Bonus action.
Specifically, Nick lets you do that as part of the Attack action.
Specifically, Pact of the Chain lets you swap out attacks made as part of the Attack action for a familiar attack.

Pact of the Chain doesn't seem to care about the source or conditions on those attacks, just the action used to do it. If I polymorphed into a creature with Multiattack, I could also swap out a Multiattack for a familiar attack, it seems.

Compare to Valor bard, which seems to specify that you need to swap out an attack from the Extra Attacks feature:


("those" attacks meaning your attacks from this feature)

EK uses the same swap language as Pact of the Chain, and would also seem to allow cantrips in place of Light-property attacks used with Nick

You have answered your question in your opening post.

When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don't add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage unless that modifier is negative.

That’s really specific. Not a cantrip, not a familiar. An attack with a light weapon. If you don’t attack with a light weapon and the use another light weapon you don’t get to make the extra attack.

 

[Zardnaar]

You have answered your question in your opening post.


That’s really specific. Not a cantrip, not a familiar. An attack with a light weapon. If you don’t attack with a light weapon and the use another light weapon you don’t get to make the extra attack.

Except it gets folded into attack action. And you can RAW sap it for a pet attack. The "light" weapon becomes the pet it seems.