D&D 5E (2024) Pact of the Chain + Nick Mastery

[doctorbadwolf]

No because the Imp is invisible pretty much all the time with a 60 foot fly speed, getting advantage on attacks and causing disadvantage on enemy attacks and has magic resistance, devil's sight and 120 foot darkvision. They are also resummoned with an action if they fall to zero hit points, going back up to full. So falling to 0 hit points costs one attack.

A 2nd level Ranger base damage with a 16 Strength and a Greataxe is 9.5+6.5 with two consecutive hits if someone else is within 5 feet. With two weapon fighting and a short sword and scimitar it is 13, or the same as an Imp without advantage from invisibility. They boost that with Hunter's Mark, but not typically enough to overcome the advantage from Invisibility and better mobility.

And it is not just the numbers. I've played the two classes you are talking about more than any other two classes using the 2024 rules. I've played 6 Warlocks and 5 Rangers using the 2024 rules including examples that went levels 1-20.





At low levels (any time before level 5) an Imp is WAY ourunning EB/AB. It is not outrunning other Warlocks built for damage, but it is outrunning this.




These are not exclusive, there is no "instead" except at 1st level. A 2nd level Warlock can do everything in the copied text from the first paragraph with Pact of the Tome, Pact of the Blade, GFB and still have their Pseudodragon sting one enemy a turn without giving up a single attack.

If you give up POT - you can take POTC, POB, Agonizing GFB. With all this and Hex, a 16 Charisma and a Pseudo dragon you are doing 3d6+6 to one target, 6 to another target within 5 feet and having the Pseudodragon sting for 5 damage, poisoned and unconscious for a minute on a failed save .... and then next turn the Warlock is making a critical on that unconscious guy (or leaving him asleep while you concentrate on those that aren't).

The Pseudodragon sting, which the Warlock takes no action for, is better than any 1st level control spell and a chain lock can do it every round the Dragon is alive without giving up anything. Now this is not really an every turn thing because your Dragon will typically die in the 2nd round of combat, but by then they have already severrly impacted the enemy.

Dude writing a novel length rant doesn't encourage people to read your arguments. You severely overestimate the normalcy of play at your table i think, because i have observed dozens of tables and none of them ever match up to your claims. Not once.

Hell i have never seen anyone but you claim that chain pact is especially powerful. Including three people for whom the chain warlock is their favorite class that they have played once or more a week since the phb dropped.

So i am done engaging with you on this topic. I have learned to step away when arguments are going nowhere. Have a good one.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

No because the Imp is invisible pretty much all the time with a 60 foot fly speed, getting advantage on attacks and causing disadvantage on enemy attacks and has magic resistance, devil's sight and 120 foot darkvision. They are also resummoned with an action if they fall to zero hit points, going back up to full. So falling to 0 hit points costs one attack.

A 2nd level Ranger base damage with a 16 Strength and a Greataxe is 9.5+6.5 with two consecutive hits if someone else is within 5 feet. With two weapon fighting and a short sword and scimitar it is 13, or the same as an Imp without advantage from invisibility. They boost that with Hunter's Mark, but not typically enough to overcome the advantage from Invisibility and better mobility.

And it is not just the numbers. I've played the two classes you are talking about more than any other two classes using the 2024 rules. I've played 6 Warlocks and 5 Rangers using the 2024 rules including examples that went levels 1-20.





At low levels (any time before level 5) an Imp is WAY ourunning EB/AB. It is not outrunning other Warlocks built for damage, but it is outrunning this.




These are not exclusive, there is no "instead" except at 1st level. A 2nd level Warlock can do everything in the copied text from the first paragraph with Pact of the Tome, Pact of the Blade, GFB and still have their Pseudodragon sting one enemy a turn without giving up a single attack.

If you give up POT - you can take POTC, POB, Agonizing GFB. With all this and Hex, a 16 Charisma and a Pseudo dragon you are doing 3d6+6 to one target, 6 to another target within 5 feet and having the Pseudodragon sting for 5 damage, poisoned and unconscious for a minute on a failed save .... and then next turn the Warlock is making a critical on that unconscious guy (or leaving him asleep while you concentrate on those that aren't).

The Pseudodragon sting, which the Warlock takes no action for, is better than any 1st level control spell and a chain lock can do it every round the Dragon is alive without giving up anything. Now this is not really an every turn thing because your Dragon will typically die in the 2nd round of combat, but by then they have already severrly impacted the enemy.

Even though I disagree with the pseudodragon at will, I am totally on your side here. Chain pact is very good. Especially in the utility department. And a quasit that can poison enemies for a turn is very useful too.

 

[ECMO3]

Dude writing a novel length rant doesn't encourage people to read your arguments. You severely overestimate the normalcy
of play at your table i think, because i have observed dozens of tables and none of them ever match up to your claims.

It is tables as in multiple and like I said I've played 6 different 2024 Warlocks personally and all of them had Pact of the Chain at some point.

Hell i have never seen anyone but you claim that chain pact is especially powerful.

You mean anyone except the person who posted right after you and the multiple people that posted on the POTC thread a little further down? Here is some quotes from other people on this very board:

"So, I'm now running a game with a Pact of Chain Warlock and he has one of those sphinxes. Holy, it's destroying everything. 1d4+2d6 radiant damage every round. It does more than the greatsword wielding barbarian."

"I think the real power of PotC is that you can now have more than one pact! If you wanted to be a "sword warlock" in the past, it usually meant pact of the blade. Now you can do both. "

"Well since then I have seen an advanced quasit build with summon undead combos. Its really good but the familiars scale poorly."

And here is an entire thread on it:

D&D 5E (2024) Thread 'Pact of the Chain broken at low levels?'

Sep 4, 2024

I love the little critters, but a HP20+ creature that can go invisible, shape change and do respectable damage at first level seams extremly powerful .. I mean the HP alone is double that of a first level char.

Then there is also the debatable rule that it cost only a single Magic action (at-will) to re-summon a new one, which makes the Warlock an extremly potent summoner at low levels. I'm not convinced that it can be cast that fast, since the Glossary mentions under Magic action that a spell might have alonger duration and how that works .. but on the other hand the pact of the chain...

• Baumi
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• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons