D&D 4E Paizo and 4e.

[MerricB]

One of the ongoing themes I've heard from people is that high-level D&D is hard to prepare and run. Paizo have more experience with that than most, and I've seen how they've struggled at time writing coherent, playable high-level adventures.

(If you ever want to see the 5-minute workday in action, play Spire of Long Shadows by EDIT:Jesse Decker).

So, I really hope that Wizards can pull that off, and that Paizo can take advantage of it.

I've run *all* of Age of Worms, and the first three adventures of both Shackled City and Savage Tide (and there's more of both on the way), so I've got a lot of love for Paizo's work. My concern is that, especially when you read their boards, they're attracting a sizable (or very vocal) anti-4e element, and so that even if they don't mean to intentionally, they're becoming the "anti-4e" company.

Is Erik in a hard position? Absolutely. Being dependent on another company is always hard. (Just ask the car manufacturers who are shut down because their source of one little part goes broke...)

Cheers!

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Strangely, many of the best WOTC adventures were penned (at least in part) by Paizons. Castle Greyhawk and Red Hand of Doom leap to mind immediately.

It doesn't surprise me at all. The Paizo people have continual, monthly experience publishing adventures - Erik Mona, James Jacobs, and the rest all have lots of practical knowledge of what makes a good adventure.

 

[Stormtower]

My concern is that, especially when you read their boards, they're attracting a sizable (or very vocal) anti-4e element, and so that even if they don't mean to intentionally, they're becoming the "anti-4e" company.

It is possible this perception exists because the Paizo staff (notably James Jacobs and Erik Mona) have been vocally supportive of canonical pre-4e conventions such as the Great Wheel cosmology, demons & devils, etc.

Many folks are emotionally attached to that canon, and Paizo's designers have carried that torch thru Dungeon magazine for awhile now. Yet I still see nothing to indict Paizo as a company as "anti-4e." Nothing in the least. I trust that if/when Paizo and the other 3rd party publishers get the 4e license and SRD that they will produce great stuff for 4e.

In the meantime, I personally intend to snarf up all the 3.5/OGL goodies I can, because I'm off to hide in my grognard cave and run DCCs and Gamemastery mods until my beard is long and gray.

 

[Shroomy]

It is possible this perception exists because the Paizo staff (notably James Jacobs and Erik Mona) have been vocally supportive of canonical pre-4e conventions such as the Great Wheel cosmology, demons & devils, etc.

Many folks are emotionally attached to that canon, and Paizo's designers have carried that torch thru Dungeon magazine for awhile now. Yet I still see nothing to indict Paizo as a company as "anti-4e." Nothing in the least. I trust that if/when Paizo and the other 3rd party publishers get the 4e license and SRD that they will produce great stuff for 4e.

In the meantime, I personally intend to snarf up all the 3.5/OGL goodies I can, because I'm off to hide in my grognard cave and run DCCs and Gamemastery mods until my beard is long and gray.

I think the perception is mostly the result of the Paizo board's largely hands-off moderation policies; the anti-4e crowd can say things that would get them banned here. I used to regularly lurk on the Paizo board and was an infrequent poster; the rampant negativity has pretty much driven me away.

 

[Erik Mona]

(If you ever want to see the 5-minute workday in action, play Spire of Long Shadows by James Jacobs).

This one was actually written by Jesse Decker, who used to be Dragon's Editor-in-Chief, moved on to become WotC's Lead Developer, and who now has a management role in WotC's Organized Play department. Credit where credit is due.

So, I really hope that Wizards can pull that off, and that Paizo can take advantage of it.

Me too. And I really think they can do it. Wizards of the Coast has the most proficient rules staff in the industry. If anyone can pull this off, they can. I am very excited about the prospect of seeing the new rules and using them in my own game.

I've run *all* of Age of Worms, and the first three adventures of both Shackled City and Savage Tide (and there's more of both on the way), so I've got a lot of love for Paizo's work. My concern is that, especially when you read their boards, they're attracting a sizable (or very vocal) anti-4e element, and so that even if they don't mean to intentionally, they're becoming the "anti-4e" company.

A lot of our readers are still very upset about the magazine transition, and are doing their best to support us. We _absolutely_ want to work with Wizards of the Coast on a new edition. Their timelines don't mesh up perfectly with ours, which is to be expected. My post yesterday is merely an attempt to share with our readers where we are in the decision-making process, and ask them for feedback.

No one should assume that anything I've written in the last day on the subject says we're going to stick with 3.5, design a competing RPG, or whatever. We don't know what we're doing, and we need to talk to our readers to find out where they stand and what they would like us to do.

Nothing more, nothing less.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC

 

[MerricB]

This one was actually written by Jesse Decker, who used to be Dragon's Editor-in-Chief, moved on to become WotC's Lead Developer, and who now has a management role in WotC's Organized Play department. Credit where credit is due.

Oops! Sorry about that, James & Jesse (and Erik!)

Erik, do you have a list of the movements of staff between Wizards & Paizo? Some people seem to bounce between the two...

Cheers!

 

[James Jacobs]

Oops! Sorry about that, James & Jesse (and Erik!)

Erik, do you have a list of the movements of staff between Wizards & Paizo? Some people seem to bounce between the two...

Cheers!

I think I'm the only employee here who moved from Wizards of the Coast to Paizo after Paizo was spun off (an event that saw pretty much the entire magazine department at Wizards of the Coast leave WotC to start up Paizo).

Chris Thomasson, Matt Sernett, and Jesse Decker all moved over to work at WotC from Paizo after being part of that spin-off from WotC to Paizo.

I may be forgetting someone along the way, but that's pretty much it.

 

[Roland55]

It is my impression that Paizo is setting itself up as the anti-4e company, aided by the fans on its forums.

Meanwhile, the vibe I get from Necromancer Games they'll move to 4e as soon as possible, and adapt it as necessary to keep the feel they want.

Does anyone else get this impression?

Cheers!

I believe you style yourself an optimist? Now ... is this really that optimistic?

I went over and read, well, as much as I could in a reasonable amount of time.

Answer: no. Instead, I believe Paizo is setting themselves up as a company that survives and prospers. To that end, they are trying to enlist their faithful. I find that logical and even praiseworthy. I wish them well.

[About the "Pathfinder" thing -- they've been going down the Adventure Path for years with great success. Ironic that it ties their hands now.]

 

[Erik Mona]

Hmmm.

Well, when we started all of us came from Wizards of the Coast's Periodicals Department. Names you might be familiar with from their work on D&D would include:

Johnny Wilson
Dave Gross
Jesse Decker
Matthew Sernett
Chris Thomasson
Erik Mona

Paizo later hired James Jacobs, who had previously worked at Wizards of the Coast on their Sales team.

Johnny left Paizo to pursue other career opportunities. He was replaced as Publisher by Keith Strohm, a former brand manager and editor who had worked at TSR and Wizards of the Coast. About two years ago Keith left Paizo and I was promoted to the position of Publisher, having previously edited Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron magazines at Wizards and at Paizo.

Dave got a chance to work at Bioware and left the company. Since the magazines he worked on were cancelled shortly thereafter, he wasn't really replaced on the staff.

Jesse, Chris, and Matt all went back to Wizards of the Coast over the course of about a year and a half.

Right now the editorial staff consists of:

Erik Mona (Publisher, worked at WotC)
James Jacobs (Editor-in-Chief of Pathfinder, worked at WotC)
Jason Bulmahn (Lead Designer, major volunteer for Living Greyhawk)
F. Wesley Schneider (Associate Editor, never worked for WotC)
Mike McArtor (Associate Editor, never worked for WotC)
Jeremy Walker (Assistant Editor, never worked for WotC)
James Sutter (Assistant Editor, never worked for WotC)

Historically, there has been huge crossover between magazine contributors and D&D Freelancers. Almost the entire Paizo editorial staff has worked on books for Wizards of the Coast (notably Red Hand of Doom, Fiendish Codex 1, Complete Scoundrel, Secrets of Xendrik, and Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk), and a huge number of WotC staffers have written articles and adventures for Paizo.

The two companies retain very strong ties, and I want to reitorate that Paizo is not trying to pick a fight with WotC or set ourselves up in opposition to them.

The guys at Wizards of the Coast are our friends, and vice versa.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC

 

[Roland55]

This is pretty simple. If Paizo does NOT switch to 4E, Paizo will wither and - likely - die.

Doesn't matter if 4E is superb or stinks. Doesn't matter if the SRD comes out early or late. Nothing matters.

You're kidding yourself, gentle readers, if you think otherwise.

And, by the gods, I hope Paizo (and other companies) don't base their business decisions on the poetic declarations of their messageboard folks. Show me ten posters who claim they will fanatically support a "3.75" edition, and I'll show you one who's maybe telling the truth.

Paizo ain't that Big, and ain't that Good, and it sure as Sunday ain't Wizards of the Coast.

Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

W.P.

A very interesting point of view!

Unfortunately, Wizards of the Coast isn't Wizards of the Coast anymore ... Your crystal ball must be extremely clear to make such pronouncements! Fortunately, we need do nothing but wait ... to find out the truth.