D&D 4E Paizo and 4e.

[DaveMage]

I predict, without reservation, that 4E will be a fundamentally more successful business based on what I've seen. I think a lot of people who are bent out of shape about what they have heard so far are going to buy the rules, like them, and convert their campaigns. I think others will be pulled along by their friends and will grudgingly go over, and find out that they like the system.

I am trying to take all of the support for a 3.5 "legacy" offshoot with a giant grain of salt. I think the majority, perhaps a sizable majority, of the existing audience will convert within a year or two. I think a lot of people who are steadfastly posting against 4E on EN World are going to be excited as hell about the game in two year's time. A system can change a lot without really making an old RPG product worthless. So as long as the rules "feel like" D&D, people won't feel like they've wasted their investment. I think Wizards knows this, and I think they've likely made "make sure it still feels like D&D" their #1 design goal, their "golden rule," so to speak. And these guys are really good game designers, so I trust that they're on the job.

--Erik

Thanks for the response - it's most certainly a tough question.

I do not share your optimism (and, based on how 4e has been marketed, I'm not convinced that they have such a golden rule), but I suppose time will tell, eh?

 

[sjmiller]

I predict, without reservation, that 4E will be a fundamentally more successful business based on what I've seen. I think a lot of people who are bent out of shape about what they have heard so far are going to buy the rules, like them, and convert their campaigns. I think others will be pulled along by their friends and will grudgingly go over, and find out that they like the system.

Erik, I have no doubt that it will be a successful business for Hasbro and WotC. I imagine they are going to make lots of money. I also know that they will be doing it without my money. My current gaming group has several more years of 3.0 games to play. While we are all adults and can easily afford to buy into this new marketing scheme of WotC, we have no plans to do so. As a matter of fact, once this current campaign is over we will most likely be switching game systems entirely. We just don't see anything that sparks the desire to purchase the new edition.

For me, I have not seen anything from WotC that I have wanted to buy in the last 2 or more years, with the exception of Dungeon Tiles. They just don't mean anything to me anymore.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

For me, I have not seen anything from WotC that I have wanted to buy in the last 2 or more years, with the exception of Dungeon Tiles. They just don't mean anything to me anymore.

And I'm sure WOTC knows there are thousands and thousands of gamers out there just like you, who haven't bought their product in years and won't be buying any in the future.

 

[Rechan]

And I'm sure WOTC knows there are thousands and thousands of gamers out there just like you, who haven't bought their product in years and won't be buying any in the future.

Well it makes sense that they wouldn't be trying to win back the Old Guard's money; that's a losing paradigm.

 

[Dragonblade]

For me, I have not seen anything from WotC that I have wanted to buy in the last 2 or more years, with the exception of Dungeon Tiles. They just don't mean anything to me anymore.

So why even post on this forum?

 

[Geron Raveneye]

So why even post on this forum?

Uhm..is this the WotC message board here? I thought that was renamed "Gleemax" and had some weird color scheme now? Damn, must have taken the wrong turn, I thought this was a board for D&D discussions.

 

[Dragonblade]

And I'm sure WOTC knows there are thousands and thousands of gamers out there just like you, who haven't bought their product in years and won't be buying any in the future.

To be brutally honest, why should the opinions of these gamers even matter? I'm an active customer who still spends money on new WotC products. I intend to spend more money on 4e.

WotC should be listening to the opinions of gamers like me and making products that we want, not listening to the constant bitching and moaning from gamers who don't even buy their products.

 

[Dragonblade]

Uhm..is this the WotC message board here? I thought that was renamed "Gleemax" and had some weird color scheme now? Damn, must have taken the wrong turn, I thought this was a board for D&D discussions.

I meant why post on the 4e forum? You can have a great 3rd edition discussion on the other forums.

If you have no intention of buying 4e and all you can post is how WotC means nothing to you, why post here? Why?

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Maybe because the point discussed (and that he related to) was the question of the (current and future) success of WotC as a publisher, and he posted as a grumpy and dissatisfied customer of WotC to point out that there are customers like him who are disappointed enough by the recent products of WotC that they won't consider giving 4E even a cursory chance?

 

[Geron Raveneye]

To be brutally honest, why should the opinions of these gamers even matter? I'm an active customer who still spends money on new WotC products. I intend to spend more money on 4e.

WotC should be listening to the opinions of gamers like me and making products that we want, not listening to the constant bitching and moaning from gamers who don't even buy their products.

Hah, that's actually funny, seeing that a LOT of those gamers that once were active customers and then stopped buying WotC products did this because they felt WotC stopped listening to their opinion and making products that THEY want...and that feel even more ignored now, because WotC doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about those gamers opinions and maybe regaining their money. You know, every D&D gamer was once an active customer, until he felt TSR/WotC stopped listening to him and making the products he wanted.
Those gamers, by the way, are also known as "lost customer base".