Paladin Actions - Appropriate?

[Rystil Arden]

Depends on the character and his relationships with the other characters.

Interesting. Clearly if I'm ever in a game with a Paladin of yours, I need to make sure my PC has a good relationship with your Paladin. After all, the world may be at stake

Sounds like we've wandered a bit afield from the OP though. We're getting into 'how might you roleplay the Paladin' rather than 'what are the consequences, if any for what the Paladin did'. It's fun to speculate though.

 

[SlagMortar]

Interesting. Clearly if I'm ever in a game with a Paladin of yours, I need to make sure my PC has a good relationship with your Paladin. After all, the world may be at stake

And clearly if I'm ever in a game with a PC of yours, I'll need to be vigilent for your character falling into the traps laid by evil outsiders.

 

[Pielorinho]

All you're trying to do with your argument is blame the victim (oddly enough, not the one that was killed). What you're arguing is no different than saying someone who got raped or beaten up deserved it just because they couldn't fight off their attacker.

Moderator's Notes:

Hawken, I know you've said that you don't consider this to be a violation of the rules, but I'm here to tell you that, as the moderators interpret the rules, it is. You and all posters should feel free to engage in a civil, courteous, respectful debate on the issues involved in this thread--but please do not try to analyze other people's motives for posting the way they do (e.g., starting sentences with "All you're trying to do with your argument is...."), and absolutely avoid comparing what someone is doing in a discussion of a rule of a game to blaming the victim of a rape for the violence against them. Both ways lie madness, and being booted from the thread next time it happens .

Incidentally, know what I love to read? Harry Potter, Graham Joyce, Minister Faust, China Mieville, cooking threads, threads about druids, threads about funny things that happen in games. Notice what's not on that list? Threads about whether a particular paladin act is a violation of the paladin code. I freakin' hate these threads.

I tell you that not because you care, but to forestall any complaints that other people may have acted as badly or worse in this thread: I haven't read it, I only read the reported post. If other folks have misbehaved, please use the exclamation point under their post to report it, and I'll take a look at that one too.

As always, if you have any questions or complaints or compliments about this post, do not respond to it in this thread; instead, feel free to email me or another moderator, using our emails that can be found in the sticky post in Meta.

Daniel

 

[RangerWickett]

Incidentally, know what I love to read? Harry Potter, Graham Joyce, Minister Faust, China Mieville, cooking threads, threads about druids, threads about funny things that happen in games. Notice what's not on that list? Threads about whether a particular paladin act is a violation of the paladin code. I freakin' hate these threads.

I tell you that not because you care, but to forestall any complaints that other people may have acted as badly or worse in this thread: I haven't read it, I only read the reported post.

But if we act rudely in a thread about Harry Potter, you'll read it, so it's okay to point the finger at other posters then, right?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I agree with most of what's been said above, but can't help wondering if reneging on a deal made by his companions, without discussing it with them first, is fully within the Lawful side of his alignment. Yes, he was duty bound to act when he discovered the imp's nature, but was he duty bound to do so unilaterally? It's understandable that his companions feel aggrieved. It's not so much that he broke the deal, it's that he broke it on their behalf as well as his own, without involving them. It wasn't just his honour at stake, but theirs as well. Isn't trampling over that a little chaotic?

It is not quite everything one would hope for from a very honorable paragon of Law, but as a Paladin is not actually required to be a paragon of Law, there is no technical breaking of the Code.

But you put your finger on the heart of the "problem" IMO. Making other party members feel like they broke their word is not setting a good example because it is arguably encouraging chaotic behavior, even if the precise actions of the Paladin are not Chaotic in themselves.

IMO this is not the best example of roleplaying a paladin, but technically there is no Code violation. Best resolved through roleplaying.

 

[AllisterH]

I see it like this.

Would a good cleric of Pelor be in trouble of losing their powers?

Why does the paladin get saddled with such a heavy restriction when the clerics basically can pretty much do whatever.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I see it like this.

Would a good cleric of Pelor be in trouble of losing their powers?

Why does the paladin get saddled with such a heavy restriction when the clerics basically can pretty much do whatever.

Two very compelling reasons that the comparison is not helpful at all.

One, the Cleric of Pelor can be Chaotic Good and keep her powers, so you're not even comparing two classes with the same alignment restrictions to begin with. Two, she does not have a Code of Conduct class feature that states that she will lose her powers in her class description in the Player's Handbook.

 

[AllisterH]

Two very compelling reasons that the comparison is not helpful at all.

One, the Cleric of Pelor can be Chaotic Good and keep her powers, so you're not even comparing two classes with the same alignment restrictions to begin with. Two, she does not have a Code of Conduct class feature that states that she will lose her powers in her class description in the Player's Handbook.

Which is my point in a roundabout way.

Why do paladins get stuck with the code and the divine spellcasters like the druid and the cleric basically have non-existent codes? Its not like paladins are any closer to their deities than the clerics. It's not like they are more powerful than their cleric friends either so what gives?

It gets back to my belief that paladins should not exist in the same universe with clerics/druids. There's nothing special about paladins in any version of D&D which is the problem.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Which is my point in a roundabout way.

Why do paladins get stuck with the code and the divine spellcasters like the druid and the cleric basically have non-existent codes? Its not like paladins are any closer to their deities than the clerics. It's not like they are more powerful than their cleric friends either so what gives?

It gets back to my belief that paladins should not exist in the same universe with clerics/druids. There's nothing special about paladins in any version of D&D which is the problem.

Ah. That is a fair and reasonable question. Many have asked it, few have definitive answers. It seems likely that perhaps Paladin fans enjoy the roleplaying tension caused by the code, or maybe they like the fact that NPCs will know they follow the code and thus be able to trust the Paladin more completely (this is the case for the Aes Sedai in the world of the Wheel of Time, for instance--they adopt their Three Oaths for that same reason).

 

[Pielorinho]

But if we act rudely in a thread about Harry Potter, you'll read it, so it's okay to point the finger at other posters then, right?

My wife and I are reading the last book together, and we're only up to chapter 12. If someone reports a post in a Harry Potter thread that contains spoilers, I'm gonna permaban the both of you.

Think I'm joking? Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya?

Daniel

[Disclaimer: okay, I'm joking]