D&D 5E Paladin and Ranger Are Backward

[cbwjm]

I would like to see the Ranger with a system similar to Warlock Invocations.

That would be pretty cool and would work well with how I view their spell abilities as tricks and talents that they pick up as they gain experience.

 

[Charlaquin]

I’d also take Favored Enemy and add the ability to understand and communicate simple ideas with favored enemies regardless of language, which would make Beasts a more useful FE, and just make the feature more broadly useful, add a damage buff at level 5ish, and the ability to study a creature to make it count as a favored enemy for you.

Then take Natural Explorer and just flat out add Deft Explorer from Tashas.

Thoughts?

I don’t feel strongly about the spellcasting part, but I do like these quite a bit.

 

[Charlaquin]

I would like to see the Ranger with a system similar to Warlock Invocations.

I agree, but I feel that way about every class.

 

[Eubani]

I agree, but I feel that way about every class.

Why not? It's a simple system that provides the player a choice of simple yet flavored mechanics at a chosen pace. If it works well why not, the fighter can't be the only class that gets it mechanics stolen and shared around.

 

[bedir than]

Imagine a Ranger that has prepared spells, and something like a class feature that mimics Ritual Caster: Druid.

I'd love to see this.

I feel like more of the Ranger spells make sense out of combat. Rituals are perfect for this.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think everyone likes different things. Paladin is at the bottom for me, ahead of Cleric (who is dead last) and behind bard.

Ranger is my favorite martial class and 3rd overall. If I had to ranke classes in terms of fun, here is how I would rank them:

1. Rogue
2. Wizard
3. Ranger
4. Fighter
5. Warlock
6. Sorcerer
7. Barbarian
8. Druid
9. Bard
10. Paladin
11. Cleric

I will say I don't particularly like the PHB subclasses of Ranger, and if you were limited to those I might drop Ranger to 6th, but with XGE I think they are a great choice and one of the better classes as a player.

Fair enough. I also like the ranger, but I think it could use some cleaning up and needs a more versatile tool kit. It should, IMO, be comparable to the bard in versatility.

I don't really think it needs anything additional for natural explorer or favored enemy. I will say, natural explorer is entirely campaign dependent - it is OP in the right campaign and useless in the wrong campaign. Deft explorer is a more reliable ability that will be useful, but not OP in any campaign. Adding damage in addition to the free languages and intelligence check bonuses for FE seems to make it a bit too powerful IMO, especially when paired with the other ability. Consider the three extra languages through FE are equivalent to a half a feat and that is before you consider the intelligence check bonus. I will say the tracking bonus is largely useless.

Yeah damage maybe isn’t the right solution for Favored Enemy. Perhaps instead the ability to remove or reduce defenses of an enemy, and the greater communication.

The extra languages are good, but spread out over many levels.

Locate Object has been a party lifesaver in our game of Tomb of Annihilation.

I just wish that paladins and rangers got cantrips without having to waste a fighting style on them.

Yeah I could see that. I’m not sure half casters needed to not have cantrips.

I don’t feel strongly about the spellcasting part, but I do like these quite a bit.

Thanks! I’d also rewrite Primeval Awareness to allow you to do stuff like Aragorn tracking the orcs that took the hobbits in LoTR.

I'd love to see this.

I feel like more of the Ranger spells make sense out of combat. Rituals are perfect for this.

Hell yeah.

 

[bedir than]

I might even go so far to drop the ritual spells from the Ranger spell list and instead cast all remaining spells similar to pact magic.
Then give them X number of rituals once per long rest.

 

[S'mon]

I have a weird thing happening in my multi-party sandbox campaign; neither of the Paladins in two different groups ever uses his or her spell slots! Except occasionally to heal someone. It seems like they are worried about wasting their slots. It turns a strong class into a weak Fighter.

 

[humble minion]

I agree, Smite is so powerfull for paladin, that they just don’t care for spell most of the time.
it deserve a try out to swap prepared and know spell for those classes.

Paladins don't cast spells. They just pull slots into smite. You could probably get rid of spellcasting and give them Xd6 smite dice a day.

Jeez, am I playing my paladin THAT wrong or something?

My paladin PC is at 7th level in Storm King's thunder, fighting a lot of giants and similar massive hit point sponges, and I pretty much only use spell slots for smites when I've rolled a natural 20 and can get double benefit out of them, or else when we're really desperate and this bad guy absolutely no questions has to go down right now.

Even with only a 13 Wis, fighting giants there's a pretty decent chance of getting a saving throw failure on a Command, and that takes a heavy-hitting opponent (or two, if i upcast) completely out of the action for a round and often inflicts more damage than my 2d8 worth of smite would have, if circumstances let me use Command - Mutiny on enemies with Multiattack, or if I can order an enemy to run through a Spike Growth or something. And if I get the chance to prepare I'll usually have Bless up, that's worth a hit or two on average each combat, and if you need to make saving throws it's worth its weight in gold. And Protection from Evil vs undead etc is a huge deal.

A couple of d8s worth of damage really are a small deal, especially vs the big bruisers i find myself fighting all the time. I've usually found spellcasting to be a much more effective option.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Jeez, am I playing my paladin THAT wrong or something?

My paladin PC is at 7th level in Storm King's thunder, fighting a lot of giants and similar massive hit point sponges, and I pretty much only use spell slots for smites when I've rolled a natural 20 and can get double benefit out of them, or else when we're really desperate and this bad guy absolutely no questions has to go down right now.

Even with only a 13 Wis, fighting giants there's a pretty decent chance of getting a saving throw failure on a Command, and that takes a heavy-hitting opponent (or two, if i upcast) completely out of the action for a round and often inflicts more damage than my 2d8 worth of smite would have, if circumstances let me use Command - Mutiny on enemies with Multiattack, or if I can order an enemy to run through a Spike Growth or something. And if I get the chance to prepare I'll usually have Bless up, that's worth a hit or two on average each combat, and if you need to make saving throws it's worth its weight in gold. And Protection from Evil vs undead etc is a huge deal.

A couple of d8s worth of damage really are a small deal, especially vs the big bruisers i find myself fighting all the time. I've usually found spellcasting to be a much more effective option.

Agreed. I only smite when I get a Crit, or I’m desperate for damage now!