D&D 5E Paladin and Ranger Are Backward

[S'mon]

This is the biggest problem with the Paladin class. If you cast any spells you feel like you are wasting your slots.

You can stack a smite spell that involves an attack with an actual smite for even more spike damage... thunderous smite probably best for this AIR:

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Of course you're burning through 2 spell slots to do this and probably doing less damage than if you added smite to a crit, so it's most useful at higher level when you have plenty of slots.

 

[cbwjm]

This is the biggest problem with the Paladin class. If you cast any spells you feel like you are wasting your slots.

Paladin when I first started playing saved lives with sanctuary. Their spell slots are worth more than just fuel for smiting.

 

[Gladius Legis]

This is the biggest problem with the Paladin class. If you cast any spells you feel like you are wasting your slots.

No.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Yup, same here. The entire paladin spell list could be just a single first-level spell, and the paladin player in my group wouldn't even be able to tell you its name.

Why even have spells at all, at that point? Why not just have a "Smite X times per day" and be done with it? (Real question, not trolling I promise.) Seems like that would be easier for all involved.

My paladins use spells all the time, to great effect.

In combat, it's usually shield of faith or bless, although I've used a few others in specific situations. Out of combat, the paladin has a good number of very handy spells: Locate object/creature, revivify, raise dead, purify food and drink.

If you always have a cleric as well, the paladin might not bother with many of these, but clerics aren't always around. If you're games are all combat all the time, I can see not bothering with spells, but paladins are good utility casters.

If anything, I've seen less spellcasting from rangers than paladins.

 

[humble minion]

You can stack a smite spell that involves an attack with an actual smite for even more spike damage... thunderous smite probably best for this AIR:

Player's Handbook

Everything a player needs to create heroic characters for Dungeons & Dragons the world’s greatest roleplaying game.

www.dndbeyond.com

Of course you're burning through 2 spell slots to do this and probably doing less damage than if you added smite to a crit, so it's most useful at higher level when you have plenty of slots.

The main problem with thunderous smite is (like all smite spells, annoyingly) it requires concentration, even if you cast it the same round you use it. So you’ll have to drop your Bless or Shield of Faith or Protection from Evil to cast it, which is rarely a good exchange.

I’m normally using Bless if I have time to prepare, and shield of faith (bonus action to cast) if I don’t. Smite spells don’t usually get a look-in. There’s just better options for concentration almost all the time.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I also tend to agree that a lot of the Ranger Spells are just not that good or impactful.

Cordon of Arrows is trash. Sure, it is non-concentration and lasts 8 hours, but that only makes it useful as setting a trap while you sleep, it is still going to be a spell slot burnt and it only hits 1 enemy with each bolt, unless they enter and then end their turn still within the 30 ft radius. So, you are potentially getting four 1d6 attacks, and if the enemy makes the save no damage. Best case gets you 2d6 damage on two targets.

Compare as a "trap" spell, Spike Growth. It does take concentration, but it makes every 5ft moved deal 2d4 damage. No save. And makes it difficult terrain. So, while the enemy might blow past your Cordon of arrows and at worse take 1d6 damage, if they charge through a spike growth from end to end, they are taking 80d4 damage.

Same spell slot.


OR Flame Arrows. I will never understand why people try to defend this by saying that someone else can take the arrows and use them. That is the worst excuse for this spell, especially since it is 3rd level. It becomes only mildly useful if you have two or three archer characters all standing beside each other, digging out the arrows. But if it is just the ranger? No better than Hunter's Mark.


And I want to be clear, there are some great Ranger Spells. Steel Wind Strike is good. Spike Growth is good. Pass Without a Trace is good. Healing Spirit was good (until they nerfed it into the floor), but the rangers have just as many trash spells. And that is a bad balance for them

 

[Minigiant]

I also tend to agree that a lot of the Ranger Spells are just not that good or impactful.

Cordon of Arrows is trash. Sure, it is non-concentration and lasts 8 hours, but that only makes it useful as setting a trap while you sleep, it is still going to be a spell slot burnt and it only hits 1 enemy with each bolt, unless they enter and then end their turn still within the 30 ft radius. So, you are potentially getting four 1d6 attacks, and if the enemy makes the save no damage. Best case gets you 2d6 damage on two targets.

Compare as a "trap" spell, Spike Growth. It does take concentration, but it makes every 5ft moved deal 2d4 damage. No save. And makes it difficult terrain. So, while the enemy might blow past your Cordon of arrows and at worse take 1d6 damage, if they charge through a spike growth from end to end, they are taking 80d4 damage.

Same spell slot.


OR Flame Arrows. I will never understand why people try to defend this by saying that someone else can take the arrows and use them. That is the worst excuse for this spell, especially since it is 3rd level. It becomes only mildly useful if you have two or three archer characters all standing beside each other, digging out the arrows. But if it is just the ranger? No better than Hunter's Mark.


And I want to be clear, there are some great Ranger Spells. Steel Wind Strike is good. Spike Growth is good. Pass Without a Trace is good. Healing Spirit was good (until they nerfed it into the floor), but the rangers have just as many trash spells. And that is a bad balance for them

That's why I have a whole bunch of homebrew spells inspired from myth, legends, comics, and other fiction.

Why the Ranger cannot Ninja Log Substitution is beyond me.

They stealth. They are fast. They have tree magic. They don't cry when a tree is hurt like a druid.

It fits so well

 

[Xeviat]

The Ranger really should be a prep class and all the subclasses should have additional spells known.

 

[Sithlord]

That's why I have a whole bunch of homebrew spells inspired from myth, legends, comics, and other fiction.

Why the Ranger cannot Ninja Log Substitution is beyond me.

They stealth. They are fast. They have tree magic. They don't cry when a tree is hurt like a druid.

It fits so well

I honestly feel the ranger is best as a rogue archetype or variant. Sneak attack for sniping. Light armor. Expertise stealth and survival. Maybe some spells like the arcane trickster. And I think the bonus action move for a ranger would be sweet. Imho. I know thoughts would vary.

 

[Minigiant]

I honestly feel the ranger is best as a rogue archetype or variant. Sneak attack for sniping. Light armor. Expertise stealth and survival. Maybe some spells like the arcane trickster. And I think the bonus action move for a ranger would be sweet. Imho. I know thoughts would vary.

The main conflict is that person assume rangers can hang in melee whereas the D&D rogue cannot and is not expected to stay in the frontline as an option.