Paladin Profession

[Daedrova]

"Under conditions of peace, the warlike man attacks himself" -- Nietzsche

Now some have interpreted this in the literal manner, to suggest that a warlike man will self-destruct when there are no wars to fight. This is, of course, silly. Much of Nietzsche's work, like that of most great philosophers, was written with many possible interpretations in mind, and to latch on to the literal one betrays a lack of consideration.
No, the way to interpret this is in the metaphorical or figurative manner, to ask what it is the words might _stand for_, not what they literally mean. And in this case, just a few minutes' reflection will reveal the true meaning of the phrase given above. War, of course, is a violent state of being. Violence is abuse, and a warlike man is one who engages in abuse. And when there is noone else to abuse, a warlike man must engage in self-abuse. If you know what I mean, and I think you do.
I hope the way forward is now clear. There can only be one course of action for your paladin to take for the next five years. Good luck, and godspeed.

Hong "and be sure to stock up on lubrication" Ooi

Really, should we attempt to understand a PHILISOPHICAL statement in a METAPHORICAL sense? ... Man I have been doing it wrong all these years.
Seriously though, I must comment on the reasoning Hong gave, and on the given philosopher.
While Nietzsche did much for philosophy, I really wouldn’t call him great. Of course one would disagree with me if they excepted most of his ideas, and that is not because we merely disagree in our favor of him. Rather it is with the idea of the word "great", and what a "great" man would strive for/to be. (maybe "great" [used loosely] as a philosopher).
Nietzsche threw himself against everything that is good, claiming moral conscious to be a weakness. Among other things, I am thinking a Paladin would have quite a hard time seeing eye to eye with him.
A Paladin is only "warlike" when he is faced with evil. Secondly, battles can be fought in ways more effective then using a sword. Not all are physical.
I must disagree that "warlike" must mean "violent." Some wars are quite just and necessary, if only to be a last resort (such as when a Paladin is faced with demons) and so men who fight these wars need not be violent.
Secondly, violence also does not necessarily mean abuse. Again, if we look at War, even though violence occurs, I would hardly call smiting an evil foe a matter of "abuse."
I think Hong were being to liberal with the meanings of some of these words.
Now, I know that Nietzsche's statement is only, at best, a generality, and of course we can all see truth in that given occurrence, so I will stop there.

Anyway, Bozidar, there have been many wonderful suggestions for what a Paladin could do when not on an adventure or quest to go slay some evil necessarily.
It can be safely assumed that going on adventure during those five years is going to be viewed as unfavorable by your DM, and might mess with his plot, I would avoid any of that.
Since 9th level is nearing legendary status, and Ryn is sure to have great Charisma, so becoming some sort of Lord or leader of a community would be fitting. You could thread that very thing with building his own keep, finding a romantic interest, starting a family, founding a place to teach and/or shelter the young and needy. If he indeed relishes combat, defense of the community, and training could be fit in this way as well (of course assuming that the community is in need of defense may need checked by your DM). Or perhaps if he manages to start a family, his mindset (especially when considering battle) is altered?

 

[Green Knight]

Judge - The paladin travels from town to town hearing cases and ruling on them. This performs allows the paladin to build up a database of the area and NPCs and good-will with the locals as he interacts with them.

I was actually thinking of doing something similar to this in Living Greyhawk. Play a Paladin with Profession (Lawyer), and be a prosecuting attorney. What'd be fun about that is that then when I go to a LG game, I can then look at another player (Most likely the Fighter, Rogue or Barbarian) and say something like "Hey, I know you. Didn't I prosecute you for Drunk and Disorderly 5 times?"

And who says a Paladin can't earn money? A Paladin can travel the countryside stealing it from all manner of brigands, but he can't work an honest trade and make money off of that? Wow. OK, so a Paladin receives his Calling, after which he can't earn money. Paladin spends a week fighting evil. The Paladin then dies a week after that of starvation or exposure, as he has no money with which to buy food or clothes. Brilliant. I guess there goes my idea for a Paladin in Ravenloft who spends the Autumn and Winter adventuring, and then returns home in the Spring and Summer to work his trade and raise his daughter. Paladins can't make money, so that kid BETTER go out and get herself a job if she wants to live.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

"Under conditions of peace, the warlike man attacks himself" -- Nietzsche

Of course, in another light, a time of peace is a time for a Paladin to attack his own flaws and weaknesses-- little glitches in his moral character he is unsatisfied with, habits that undermine his training, or development in fields he is weak in.

He could train incessantly, or deprive himself to teach himself sacrifice, or study to correct his stereotypically meagre intellect.

Or, perhaps, he punishes himself to stay at the edge of his abilities-- both to stay in "the zone" that he feels in battle, and to keep his fighting edge for when he returns to battle. Or, maybe, he punishes himself out of guilt from easy living.

 

[reapersaurus]

That being said, my paladin is not meant for what i'd consider a peaceful existance. He's a fighter. He's a warrior. He's built to kick ass.

OK, it's my role to question YOU. (see sig)

If I had to knee-jerk guess (which I don't, but hey), I'd say you played a Paladin in a computer game, ands that's what got you interested in playing one in D&D.

Paladins don't live to fight.
A Paladin would desire nothing more in life than for all hostilities and oppression of incocents to end.

And simplistically, other than one shot per day, paladins don't kick ass anymore than Warriors do in 3E.

 

[Nifft]

While Nietzsche did much for philosophy, I really wouldn’t call him great. Of course one would disagree with me if they excepted most of his ideas, and that is not because we merely disagree in our favor of him.

Nietzsche was a subtle writer, who wrote in such a way that those who glossed and skimmed would think that he said the opposite of what he meant. His writings about strength are notorious in this regard, whether you accept what he says or not.

Unfortunately, his strategy backfired, and instead of making those who misunderstood him look foolish, he gave them a weapon -- and discouraged those who might understand him from ever bothering.

He suffered from the curse of being too clever.

-- Nifft

 

[DMScott]

Depending on where he is, he could spend time trying to help out the homeless and destitute, working at an orphanage, perhaps, if the city is large enough to support one.

Or alternately, he could become one of the homeless and destitute. That's not exactly without precedent for soldiers making the transition from a life of war to a period of peace and inactivity.

There's a fair amount of roleplay meat there too, if you want to take it that way - Paladins try to live up to a perfect standard, but not all manage it. A Paladin who's a born warrior but can't find a war might be certain his god could need him at any moment and so avoid putting down roots or having a real life. Extended inactivity could lead to a lot of self-doubt, then when the butt-kicking phase of the campaign picks up again you've got a nice little plotline to play out.

 

[Daedrova]

Nietzsche was a subtle writer, who wrote in such a way that those who glossed and skimmed would think that he said the opposite of what he meant. His writings about strength are notorious in this regard, whether you accept what he says or not.

Unfortunately, his strategy backfired, and instead of making those who misunderstood him look foolish, he gave them a weapon -- and discouraged those who might understand him from ever bothering.

He suffered from the curse of being too clever.

-- Nifft

Someone who merely skims over philosophy writings wouldn't really be that interested in philosophy, would they?
Perhaps I should clarify. When I say that he threw himself at everything good, there are a few things that we need to keep in mind. He did specifically write in opposition to a moral standard. More specifically he hated the Christian moral standard. Being a Christian, and believing that these moral standards are Good, I can only conclude that he throws himself at them.
With that in mind, I do not believe that he was trying to put himself in opposition of good. No one (short of those with mental deficiencies) wants to do wrong for the sake of doing wrong. Our actions are justified or reasoned in our head. That does not mean that we are not wrong sometimes in spite of that.
Nietzsche of course believed his ideas to be good, and those he opposed to be wrong.
Ironically, he tried to show the inadequacies of a moral guideline, while creating one of his own.

My apologies for the "hijack."
Korimyr the Rat did have an excellent thought on the Paladin in relation to Nietzsche's statement.

 

[Agback]

G'day

I once played a 3e paladin who was trying to make his living as a physician. Perhaps your might go and work in a clinic or hospital (remember the Knights Hospitallers).

If paladins in the campaign your character is in are at all like the Knights Templars he might spend five years in a monastery of a holy fighting order, working out, training recruits, and praying five time per day. Or he could work in his Order's banking operation, evicting mortgage defaulters.

If they are like the Teutonic Knights he could go into the Ordernsland and serve in the government, as bailiff of one of the Order's estates. For that matter the Hospitallers and the Templars also posted (usually retired) members to administer their scattered estates too.

And if paladins in your campaign don't have an Order like the Hospitallers, the Templars, or the Teutonic Knights (or the Knights of St Thomas Acon, the Knights of St Lazarus, the Knights of Aviz, the Knight of Alcantara, the Knights of Calatreva, the Mercedarian Knights, etc.), perhaps your character ought to try to set one up. Or at least set up a single community of champions of Good and Law--most of the great orders started out from the foundation of single houses or single hospitals.

Or your character could don the homespun cassock of a mendicant friar and wander the land with a begging-bowl, preaching to the benighted and fixing up any little practical problems of the humble folk he comes across. (Think Pale Rider.)

Regards,


Agback

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi Bozidar,

I'm playing a Paladin at the moment in a similar position - although 5 years of downtime does sound pretty extreme.

A few things to look at:

1) Does your character know there is "downtime" for 5 years? I would suspect not. This may influence what he does.

2) Does he have Leadership? If so, he'll most likely work on that.

3) Does he have access to funds? Nothing like spending money - normally on the Church or other people though.

In my Paladin's situation, he does not know that there is downtime and so with no immediate quests on hand - sort of - he is looking to establish himself and his order a little bit more. He's 10th level with the Leadership ability so his focus is setting up a Chapterhouse to attract those of a like mind. He has given all his funds either to his Church or those who have adventured with him including a 100,000gp sword to the other main fighter in the group - boy did that test his faith. However, he figured that he was already tough enough and as for funds, he is hoping to gain support and sponsorship for his Chapterhouse from the local nobility who need a strong arm of the law at the moment. His Diplomacy Skills are excellent - maxed out - so he figures he should eventually get the financial support he needs.

I suppose when you are a Paladin and you have down time, you start looking at the big picture rather then the small. Anything you can do to progress the Faith that you follow is a good idea. Think of something big and go with it.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Bozidar]

Re: Re: Paladin Profession

OK, it's my role to question YOU. (see sig)

is that Thanos? from that marvel mini-series way back when, around 1990, that crossed all those different titles? IT's been a long time since i read comics, but i think i remember that one..

If I had to knee-jerk guess (which I don't, but hey), I'd say you played a Paladin in a computer game, ands that's what got you interested in playing one in D&D.

Sorry, no. I've been playing D&D since before they had the first real good video games about them (PoR, i still miss you).

Paladins don't live to fight.
A Paladin would desire nothing more in life than for all hostilities and oppression of incocents to end.

I agree with you, and i'll explain my failing with this character, why it happened, and what's changed.

Ryn was added to a campaign already in progress. He joined the group, and due to the haste in which it all happened, i didn't have a good amount of time to come up with a good background for him. In fact, i still haven't. I'm hoping that through this exercise, i'll get a good idea of the character himself, as an entity, and develop a good plot for him. What i do have..

He's a human paladin of Corellon Larethian. He was raised by elves, and brought up in their ways. He left his tribe around the age of 22 when it became obvious to him that while he may belong there, his short lifespan would only cause pain and grief for his "family". As a trained warrior of justice, and the protector of elves, he set out to do good in this world that has so much wrong. End of story.. fast forward, he's 7th level, and no story.

During a role-playing session, about his 3rd or 4th session, he was left for several days in a town, while the rest of the group teleported hundreds of miles away to resupply and recoup. He couldn't leave, because he wouldn't leave his mount behind in the town, or to fend for itself (a direlion can't be teleported, too big, he was 8th level at the time). During his stay at the town he spent a lot of time wandering around, helping people. The town was having serious problems with the undead. He did his best to cheer the children up. Due to his aura of courage, it did make them feel a little better to have him around, so he spent a lot of time with them, to make them feel better. A lay on hands here, a cure light there, a cure disease..

I could see him doing that full time, and i saw, through that exercise, how he could continue a peaceful existance.

But what i had said was that he was "built" to kick ass. With an int of 10, and not a lot of skill points to swash around, he has concentration(5), diplomacy(6), heal(3), ride(12), handle animal(7), knowledge religion(3). There's not a lot to go on there, but it's something.

So here is my plan -- he's going to accept a post at the local temple of Corellon. He'll train up and coming paladins and clerics of that faith. He'll walk the community as a constable, keeping the streets safe, and lending aid when he has the time. To earn money, to repay his debt, he's going to partake in local contests. They're non-lethal, and thus the purse is smaller, but he couldn't take part in to-the-death matches (held in another city) just for the sake of money.

I've already checked with my DM about this, and gotten little response, but I think he will attend the local court. He will find a charity of some kind, be it orphans, homeless, or just the downtrodden that need help, and lobby the nobles and weathy to lend funds to that cause.

Also, he is going to work with the wizard (11th level) in the party, an arcane devotee of Corellon. They will try to get an audience with the queen for sponsorship. Together they will try to build a school dedicated to the teachings of Corellon. They will gather up young children, mostly elves, and train them in the ways best suited to them. The most intellegent, if they desire, will be trained to become wizards. Those most devout, will be trained in the beginings of priesthood. Those strong of body and will, with the right attitudes, will apprentice him as paladins (he'll leave the temple to live at the school).
I'm going to lobby to get the school built within the city limits of the same place as the aforementioned temple. That way his charitable works can continue uninterupted.

Overall his plan, which started with very little, has really fleshed out thanks to alot of the input from here, and with the developments of that other character. Good times ahead, i think. We'll see.